Street running

[jrbarney]

Coert,
I was doing a search in the Index of Magazines for narrow gauge articles by John Derr when I found this citation:

Trackwork in streets, a guide to prototype practice Traction Guidebook for Model Railroaders, page 53. Article also published in Model Railroader, January 1963, page 58. Article also published in Model Railroader, February 1963, page 67. Article also published in Model Railroader, March 1963, page 61 ( "CLOUSER, BILL", STREET, TRACK )

I think the traction guidebook is long out-of-print, but you might try CustomerService@KalmbachPubs for photocopies of the individual articles, or the NMRA's Kalmbach Memorial Library:
http://www.nmra.org/library/
Even if you are not a member, the NMRA's photocopy fee is reasonable.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

I think in many cases they simply put a layer of asphalt over the top of the old cobbles - I've seen a few photos of heavily-worn roads where the cobbles are showing through, and seen a few real-life incidences of this too. Often they just put a layer of asphalt over the whole street when trolleys/street running by RR were/was stopped rather than going through the laborious process of cutting out all the old rails - result being that when the street's in need of resurfacing we amateur industrial archeologists get a great view of the old tracks!

[Jetrock]

We have a fake cobblestone street in Old Sacramento, and the aforementioned formerly-cobblestone bits poking through around the old Southern Pacific industrial traffic. From the old shots I have seen, the street trolleys sometimes had a couple rows of brick or cobblestone adjacent to the rails as late as the 1940's, but were otherwise paved. I suppose it depends on the individual city, street and line...

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbarney

QUOTE: Originally posted by Leon Silverman

Jetrock:
In California, cobblestones may have gone out of use in the 1920's, but this charter baby boomer (born 1946) can remember cobblestone trolley tracks in the 1950's around Philadelphia.

Jetrock,
Ditto on the cobblestone trolley tracks on Bloomfield Avenue in Essex County, New Jersey, during the 1950s.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

I've got a cobblestone street one block away from me. No track, though [:(]

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Leon Silverman

Jetrock:
In California, cobblestones may have gone out of use in the 1920's, but this charter baby boomer (born 1946) can remember cobblestone trolley tracks in the 1950's around Philadelphia.

Jetrock,
Ditto on the cobblestone trolley tracks on Bloomfield Avenue in Essex County, New Jersey, during the 1950s.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Leon Silverman]

Jetrock:
In California, cobblestones may have gone out of use in the 1920's, but this charter baby boomer (born 1946) can remember cobblestone trolley tracks in the 1950's around Philadelphia.

[BRJN]

You shouls look for a book titled "How to build City Scenery", or something very close to that. One chapter discusses a Boston street-running module. (This module is pictured on the front cover.) It may help you with ideas and techniques.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, I didn't know this much information was available, it really helps me a lot.

[BR60103]

Coert:
There is a thread on www.the-gauge.com about building street trackage for street cars.
Most places I remember, the transition is a curve to the side of the road; the street carries on straight. There is a streetcar transition in Toronto where the pavement just ends, but there are lots of signs telling cars to go somewhere else.

[johncolley]

Oh, and don't forget to limit speed to 10mph or less and possibly need to ring your bell.

[Anonymous]

Great Matt, those pics are just spot on.

[Anonymous]

There's a few photos at www.oldnyc.com that might be of use - look at the Jay Street Connecting RR and the New York Cross Harbor RR sections, both have plenty of photos of this type of line including the transitions between street running and normal track. Hope this is of help!

[Jetrock]

Cobblestones would only have been used if the street running is VERY old--1920's or earlier. Normally street trackage after that point would have been done with cement, or asphalt. There is minimal transition to worry about--the street just kind of starts.

One thing, though--if the street DOES date back that late, chunks of asphalt might have popped up revealing chunks of cobblestone. In Sacramento, CA, the old R Street freight line (which dates back to the 1860's) is long-abandoned but there is still a lot of track in the streets, and in some places the asphalt has cracked and crumbled to reveal old cobbles. This could be modeled by using commercial brick sheet and filling in around it with plaster, drywall mud or Sculptamold, leaving "holes" of exposed brick.

Typically there will be white or yellow marking lines along the edge of the tracks to indicate places where cars don't want to be when a train is running through!

[cefinkjr]

If you haven't poured plaster yet, may I suggest that you consider using sheet styrene instead. Remember that Murphy will be watching you pour that plaster and will take advantage of the difficulty of correcting a problem. Gremlins will immediately and continuously invade your plastered track work. On the other hand, if you use sheet styrene, access for maintenance will be much easier and you will never have a problem requiring you to tear up your pavement.[;)]

[Anonymous]

Thanks all for answering, especially Ray's answer kan help me a lot. But I was wondering what the markings on the pavements look like. Pictures would be nice, but a simple paint drawing also can help me a lot.

By the way, My tracks are soldered with an inner rail al the way on PC boar, so I can pour plaster right between the tracks. Maybe I will carve cabblestone between the tracks it certainly sounds nice and it doesn't look as simple and flat as all asphalt.

[orsonroy]

The NS had a lot of street running trackage inherited from the old NKP mainline, especially in Erie, PA.

Cobblestones in the modern era? Nope; asphalt. No transition between regular trackage and the streets; just round off the end of the asphalt. Grade crossing flashers at cross streets, warning signs every block, and extra tall telephone poles.

And don't forget the irate NIMBY's!

I believe there are a few detail photos of the last day of Erie street running someplace on the NKP Historical Society's website:

www.nkphts.org

[Anonymous]

No problem with putting asphalt betwenn the rails. Having an east coast scenario, even cobblestones would seem appropriate, if you recall allthe articles about the New York Cross Harbor RR. Whistle Posts at the point of transition seem ok to me, dont forget things like pavement markings to warn drivers not to park there and such.

Dont forget to cover the ties with a thin sheet of plastic painted black so they can't be seen from above !

Martin

[ndbprr]

I think just about any scenario you can come up with can be used however....as I sit here contemplating I would bet that most transitions are very similar to a grade crossing. there really isn't much of an adjustment. i would also bet that most street trackage probably follows streetcar right of way logic with brick betyween the rails and asphalt or brick outside the rails.

[MidlandPacific]

This is just a guess, but whistle posts just before the rails go onto the pavement, and possibly signs (I don't know what the NS uses) announcing any in-force restrictions.

[Anonymous]

Hi everybody,

I've planned to lay two tracks embedded in a main street on my layout. But now as I've soldered the tracks including the innerrails I'm close to casting plster.

Now I'm wondering what details do I need around this street tracks, for example what constructions are used near the transistion of street to normal balasted track and what road and railroad signs are to be found nearby.

My town is located in the northern Eastcoast region and is mainly used by the Norfolk Southern in this era. Who can help