I'm not generally a stickler for prototype, but I'd like to know exactly how much I'm stretching reality.
I've got 4 Stewart 70 ton C&EI hoppers inbound. Very similar to this:
I may already be stretching reality as every prototype photo I've seen of a long C&EI hopper was 4 bay. Still I'm curious if this type could still be seen in the midwest still working into the 80's.
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The PRR H39's lasted well into the 80's on Conrail so this type would still be around then on other railroads.
As another point, due to changes in truck springing and journals, 70 ton cars were allowed to be classed as 77 Ton cars with a CAPY of 154,000, that extra 7 Tons gave these cars a little bit longer lease on life.
I used to drive past the Presque Isle Yards that fed the lake freighters in Toledo, and there were scads of 3 bay 70-77 Ton hoppers being used.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Note that your car has a 1957 build date, which would make it 30 years old in 1987. Cars built before 1974 had a 40 year allowable service life, making it at least plausible to see them in the early 1990s yet (without knowing more specifics about CEI's cars - I don't know if they specifically purged their fleet through sale or scrapping earlier).
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Thanks guys!
Good to know I'm not stretching reality too much.
Most of the pictorial evidence I've seen is here:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?road=CEI&cid=5
Shows similar cars running into the 2010's. However they are 4 bay, might be larger (possibliy 100 tonners?) and seem to have MP patches and the more modern small-logo "C&EI) livery.
All that said, I think you all have given me enough leway to easily stretch these at least through the 80's. Now all I have is the matter of Motive power. Since I'm doing this on a budget I see these options.
-Find the unicorn of an affordable C&EI Geep.
-Get a more-common black Mo-Pac, possibly slap a C&EI logo under the window.
- Use my existing UP locos.
EilifMost of the pictorial evidence I've seen is here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?road=CEI&cid=5 Shows similar 4 bay cars running into the 2010's. However they might be larger (possibliy 100 tonners?) and seem to have MP patches and the more modern small-logo "C&EI) livery.
Shows similar 4 bay cars running into the 2010's. However they might be larger (possibliy 100 tonners?) and seem to have MP patches and the more modern small-logo "C&EI) livery.
Yeah that's the problem of not being as many photos from back in the seventies and eighties. Your car would have aged out in the late 1990s so by 2010 it would have been ~15 years past its retirement date.
cv_acr Your car would have aged out in the late 1990s so by 2010 it would have been ~15 years past its retirement date.
Your car would have aged out in the late 1990s so by 2010 it would have been ~15 years past its retirement date.
Good enough for my use even if it there weren't many left by the 90's. I'm fine running stuff that didn't make it all the way through my 20 year "era".
Another question to ponder on is the C&EI was mered into the MP in '67 while some parts was sold to the L&N as part of the merger deal... So,here's the question.
How many C&EI cars was still around in the 70s and 80s?
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
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Eilif-Find the unicorn of an affordable C&EI Geep. -Get a more-common black Mo-Pac, possibly slap a C&EI logo under the window.
Actually, for the 1980's, the "black" MP engine would be the Unicorn. MP engines in that era are dark blue. The only black diesels the MP had were back in the 1940's -1960's and were all switchers.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
BRAKIEHow many C&EI cars was still around in the 70s and 80s?
The 1987 ORER lists about 400 C&EI cars, mostly hoppers and covered hoppers. There were also several thousand more cars that had C&EI heralds, etc, but were patched with MP reporting marks and number.
Back when I was modeling the 1970's-1980's I modeled a 50 ft boxcar with the big C&EI lettering that was patched for the MP, based on a picture I took of that car.
There are still a few C&EI buzzsaw herald hopper/covered hopper cars floating around out there. None have C&EI reporting marks.
dehusman The 1987 ORER lists about 400 C&EI cars, mostly hoppers and covered hoppers. There were also several thousand more cars that had C&EI heralds, etc, but were patched with MP reporting marks and number. Back when I was modeling the 1970's-1980's I modeled a 50 ft boxcar with the big C&EI lettering that was patched for the MP, based on a picture I took of that car.
Thanks, that's great information. I guess I've got more than enough reason to keep these guys running on my layout. Some of the pictures I saw appeared to have the original C&EI number with MP stamped over th C&EI. Does that sound right that they would have kept the C&EI numbers? On some they didn't even appear to have blacked out C&EI so it read "MP EI"
As for the loco, I was looking at old pictures of MP/C&EI GPs, perhaps I thought I was looking at black but it was really dirty blue?
PRR Class H-39 3-bay 70 ton triple hoppers lasted in service into the early 2000's. There were 16,133 cars built between 1960 and 1966. By 1980, approximately 25% or 4000 cars were still in service carrying PRR paint. About half were repainted into Conrail by 1980, and the balance had been repainted Penn Central.
Erie Lackawanna never owned a 100 ton open hopper, and their large fleet of 70 ton 3-bay open hoppers lasted I believe into the very early 2000's.
John
dehusmanThe 1987 ORER lists about 400 C&EI cars, mostly hoppers and covered hoppers. There were also several thousand more cars that had C&EI heralds, etc, but were patched with MP reporting marks and number.
Cool stuff to know.. When I was modeling 77/78 I almost bought a C&EI covered hopper but,thought those covered hoppers would be rare.
Thanks John,
More good justification for having these in my layout. I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of these 4 kits!
Minor addendum, they arrived and they aren't unbuilt kits, but that's no bad thing.
Rather, they're nicely assembled with KD's metal wheels, sprung trucks and neatly painted weights. Can't wait to get them rolling!
Thanks again to you all for the background info.
ex-CEI covered hopper in 2012:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=mp718573&o=mp
ex-CEI 86' auto parts boxcar in 2005:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=mp271820&o=mp
ex-CEI 60' boxcar in 2014:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=mp266513_2&o=mp
ex-CEI 50' boxcar in 1998:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=mp253054&o=mp
ex-CEI 4-bay open hopper in 2003:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=mp588547&o=mp
Thanks Chris,
Some good ideas there...