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Lumber cars

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Lumber cars
Posted by kasskaboose on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 7:37 AM

What types of cars to get for an early 1980s layout with a lumberyard in southern VA?  I saw 72' partitition center-beam railcars.  Any other type(s)?  They are quite expensive at $30/each or more in HO scale.

My best,

Lee

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:21 AM

I assume you mean the railroad is delivering lumber to the yard. 

Bulkhead flat cars.  The older MDC/Roundhouse/Athearn car is a nice model and are plentiful on the secondary market.  Current productions are more detailed and expensive.

53 foot Evans double door boxcars were favored by lumber companies to ship plywood.  Atlas and Scaletrains currently make models decorated for such service.  The Atlas model is also plentiful on the secondary market.

And any regular boxcar, preferrably double doored.

There are also Thrall all-door box cars, but I'm not sure if they were still in service or fell out of favor by the early 1980's.  Walthers makes a model, but its fairly pricey.

- Douglas

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:23 AM

You might want to look at Thrall Door Cars. They were a pretty unique car and some had fancy paint jobs for the various lumber and plywood manufacturers.

https://www.walthers.com/gold-line-tm-56-thrall-all-door-boxcar-single-car-ready-to-run-lignum

 

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by dti406 on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:02 AM

The Atlas FMC 5077 CF Double Door Boxcar, the WP had hundreds of these for transporting lumber. They just announced a new run of these for delivery later this year.

The Intermountain Railway FMC 5283 CF Double Door Boxcar, the SP, Cotton Belt, and MILW bought a number of these cars for lumber service, the MILW cars ended up on the BAR after a couple of years.

 

 

Rick Jesionowski

 

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:22 AM

gmpullman

You might want to look at Thrall Door Cars. They were a pretty unique car and some had fancy paint jobs for the various lumber and plywood manufacturers.

https://www.walthers.com/gold-line-tm-56-thrall-all-door-boxcar-single-car-ready-to-run-lignum

 

Good Luck, Ed

 

Its interesting to see the pic of the recent release.  That model looks like the same tooling from old Life Like runs back in the day.  I used to have several painted in that same scheme.  With only the addition of better trucks and couplers, I don't see much difference from the LL vintage.

- Douglas

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Posted by dknelson on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:15 AM

The LifeLike car seems like a decent enough casting and the paint jobs were good too.  I suspect Douglas is correct and that Walthers just improved the LifeLike tooling.  It says it is discontinued but you never knew when these things make a comeback.  And the LifeLike versions are still seen at swap meets.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:41 AM

As far as those Thrall door boxcars, I think they fell out of favor fairly early in their production since the door mechanisms were complicated.  Structurally, they were just a bulkhead flat car with a permanent steel cover and doors to protect the product from the elements.  I think lumber companies began to cover the products in those weather resistant wraps and the railroads began using more flat cars and center beams instead of the thrall.

 

- Douglas

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Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:58 AM

1980's ?

Plain flatcars for the rougher lumber that would be stored outside.

Bulkhead flatcars for bundled lumber (could be wrapped or not.)

Early centerbeams for bundled lumber (could be wrapped or not).

40 ft boxcars (still a few of them floating around).

50 ft cars with an 10 ft sliding door.

50 ft double sliding door cars.

All door cars, but they were relatively rare.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by dti406 on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 1:22 PM

The Life Like and Walthers cars are entirely different. I don't remember off hand but the door sizes are different between the two cars and they are based off of two different prototypes. The Life-Like car was an early version and the Walthers is a later version of the car.

Rick Jesionowski

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

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Posted by cv_acr on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 3:19 PM

dknelson

The LifeLike car seems like a decent enough casting and the paint jobs were good too.  I suspect Douglas is correct and that Walthers just improved the LifeLike tooling.  It says it is discontinued but you never knew when these things make a comeback.  And the LifeLike versions are still seen at swap meets.

Dave Nelson

No, Walthers had their own Thrall-Door model at the same time Life-Like had theirs, long before the buyout. The Walthers one was far superior in the detail department, as the Life-Like one was basically a toy train car, with visible mounting tabs and slots in the side side, molded on door rods (the Walthers car has separate parts) and really shallow end detail.

This is a re-release of the Walthers tooling, not the crappy Life Like stuff.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 3:30 PM

Lumber was deliverd in double door boxcars,bulkheads and centerbeams. While working on the Chessie I don't recall seeing 50 or 60 foot flatcars carrying lumber. I seen a lot of 60' flats carrying John Deer,Internation Harverster tractors,Bobcats,backhoes and other like loads.

Larry

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 7:52 PM

kasskaboose

What types of cars to get for an early 1980s layout with a lumberyard in southern VA?  I saw 72' partitition center-beam railcars.  Any other type(s)?  They are quite expensive at $30/each or more in HO scale.

My best,

Lee

 

Are you sure about 72' Centerbeam in the early 80s?  I didnt think they were even built until around 86 or 87.  There were 63' Centerbeam like the Thralls ExactRail offered a few years ago.

Out west lumber was shipped on flat cars, bulkhead flat cars, Thrall All door cars and in dd boxcars.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 7:55 PM

Doughless

As far as those Thrall door boxcars, I think they fell out of favor fairly early in their production since the door mechanisms were complicated.

What do you mean by early?  

They were quite popular in the Pacific Northwest and Canada in the 70s and into the 80s.  A few lasted onto the 1990s.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:05 PM

dti406

The Atlas FMC 5077 CF Double Door Boxcar, the WP had hundreds of these for transporting lumber. They just announced a new run of these for delivery later this year.

 

 Rick Jesionowski

 

It's a shame Atlas, to date, still hasn't offered a WP like pictured above.  If get some.  Only the late era WP with the wierdly colored doors.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by kasskaboose on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 5:50 AM

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.  Seeing that there are multiple options available avoids me having to only get one type of freight car.  The boxcars and center-beam flat cars seem more readily available than the partition flat cars.  They also are more expensive than boxcars, which serve multiple industries.

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Posted by railandsail on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 7:18 AM

cv_acr

 

 
dknelson

The LifeLike car seems like a decent enough casting and the paint jobs were good too.  I suspect Douglas is correct and that Walthers just improved the LifeLike tooling.  It says it is discontinued but you never knew when these things make a comeback.  And the LifeLike versions are still seen at swap meets.

Dave Nelson

 

 

No, Walthers had their own Thrall-Door model at the same time Life-Like had theirs, long before the buyout. The Walthers one was far superior in the detail department, as the Life-Like one was basically a toy train car, with visible mounting tabs and slots in the side side, molded on door rods (the Walthers car has separate parts) and really shallow end detail.

This is a re-release of the Walthers tooling, not the crappy Life Like stuff.

 

I was buying some of these thrall door lumber cars early in my re-entry to the hobby. I recall the very basic car that LL introduced originally. Then I recall the improved car with the 'relief molding' coming out.

But my memory says that second generation was also a LL product?  It was a period of time where LL was making big moves to go from their toy like models and transistion into their Proto 2K models.

In that same vein, I feel that LL into Proto2K was a major driver of the move to much superior plastic models.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 7:55 AM

Walthers sells a pretty decent Thrall All-door car. 

As for expensive, there is a decent selection of them on eBay in the 20 to 30 dollar price range - that isn't too bad.  Scroll past the higher priced options.

 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 8:26 AM

Which car also depends on what you are shipping.  Flat cars are more likely "construction grade" wood (2x's, 4x's, fence posts) while stuff in boxcars are more likely to be finish grade and stuff that can't get wet (1x's, mill work, particle board, interior plywood, etc).

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 2:09 PM

riogrande5761

 

 
Doughless

As far as those Thrall door boxcars, I think they fell out of favor fairly early in their production since the door mechanisms were complicated.

 

What do you mean by early?  

They were quite popular in the Pacific Northwest and Canada in the 70s and into the 80s.  A few lasted onto the 1990s.

 

I stand corrected.  I think the emergence of the center beam kind of put them on the back burner and they may not have fulfilled their intended useful life.  I think the doors were viewed as a pain to operate in loading and unloading.

- Douglas

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Posted by kasskaboose on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 7:58 PM

riogrande5761

 

 
kasskaboose

What types of cars to get for an early 1980s layout with a lumberyard in southern VA?  I saw 72' partitition center-beam railcars.  Any other type(s)?  They are quite expensive at $30/each or more in HO scale.

My best,

Lee

 

 

 

Are you sure about 72' Centerbeam in the early 80s?  I didnt think they were even built until around 86 or 87.  There were 63' Centerbeam like the Thralls ExactRail offered a few years ago.

Out west lumber was shipped on flat cars, bulkhead flat cars, Thrall All door cars and in dd boxcars.

 

Apparently, center beam cars existed even earlier than the 1980s:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/196055.aspx

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 8:41 PM

They sure did, I'll see your link and raise you one!  Stick out tongue

The Thrall 63' were introduced in 1977, perfect for my era which is why I bought 5 of them in BN, UP, WP and two MILW.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,2797499

 

 

https://exactrail.com/products/thrall-63-opera-window-center-beam-flat-car-bn

 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by kasskaboose on Thursday, July 18, 2019 2:00 PM

Well played Rio! 

Since we live stone's throw from each other, we need to sync up. 

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Posted by NHTX on Friday, July 19, 2019 9:50 AM

   Because the OP seems to be interested in accuracy in modeling the car type in serving this lumber yard, correct road names are as important, in setting this scene.  The predominant manufacturer modeled in HO, is FMC.  Atlas is going to re-run the 5077 cu. ft. double door exterior post car.  Prototype operaters of the plate B, 5077 were Western Pacific, McCloud River, and Hartford and Slocomb, all running the cars with centered Youngstown doors.  City of Prineville, Camino, Placerville, and Lake Tahoe, Sierra, and Union of Oregon ran the cars with offset double Youngstown doors.  Some WP cars had their Youngstown doors replaced with off color doors that looked like Superior brand doors.  Atlas also offered the 5503 cu. ft. double door exterior post car that was mainly a Southern Pacific car as they ordered all 700 but, according to "FMC Boxcars Since 1972" by Eric A. Neubauer, some were lettered for the Longview, Portland and Northern and, the Amador Central, both lumber roads and, SP connections.  The 5347 cu ft car built on the same basic design as all the other FMC "lumber" cars was operated by East St. Louis Junction, Galveston Wharves, and lumber lines, Oregon, Pacific and Eastern, Port of Tillamook Bay, and Yreka Western.  These cars had offset Youngstown doors.  The other "lumber" boxcar is the 5283 as offered by Intermountain.  The double sliding door cars were predominately Southern Pacific and Cotton Belt, carrying forest products to destinations all over the country.

      Because most of these cars operated by shortlines were products of the incentive per diem era when some operaters had more cars than track to hold them all, the cars carried their non-traditional paint jobs on to second, third, fourth and more operators.  In the early 1980s, most were still under their original reporting marks and, would lend accuracy, and color to your lumber operation.

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