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Picture Need (Great Northern & Northern Pacific)

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  • Member since
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Picture Need (Great Northern & Northern Pacific)
Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, May 20, 2019 5:54 PM

Got another one for my Forum friends: I have a GN car in the 2001## number series that I am looking to do some weathering on. I have been told that they were built with roofwalks that were quickly removed. The ribs were steel and the roof panels were aluminum. As a result, the centerline of the roof rusted. I haven't been able to find any pictures of this. (I have only been able to find two pictures of this series period.) Does anyone have any prototype pictures of the roof of these cars (or even model pictures of this effect) that I could use to accurately model this? As usual, thank you for any assistance that anyone can provide.

Got yet another picture need: Does anyone have any pictures of the NP 38000-38799 leased car series? I have only been able to find two pictures of this series: One comes from the NP Color Guide (by Todd Sullivan) and the other was provided to me via Facebook. A roof shot would be nice but any additional pictures would be nice. (Need for weathering purposes.) As usual any assistance that can be provided would be most welcomed.

[Threads combined by moderator]

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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, May 20, 2019 7:44 PM

There is 4 box cars in that series here, page 3:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsList.aspx?id=GN&cid=2&Page=3

RRpictures archives doesn't have anything on the NP cars.  Higher and lower numbers, but nothing in the 38000 series.

Check out the GN and the NP historical societies.

Mike.

 

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Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, May 20, 2019 8:33 PM

mbinsewi

There is 4 box cars in that series here, page 3:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsList.aspx?id=GN&cid=2&Page=3

Those are a few I didn't have.

mbinsewi

RRpictures archives doesn't have anything on the NP cars.  Higher and lower numbers, but nothing in the 38000 series.

I've tried all the photo sites I have and struck out there as well. I have put out feelers in other places with no luck there as well.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by BATMAN on Monday, May 20, 2019 9:04 PM

Might be a bit of a long shot but the City Of Vancouver and Province Of British Columbia archives have a lot of GN pics online.

Brent

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Monday, May 20, 2019 10:13 PM

Check the NP and GN histerical societies. (Yes I mean historical society, but histerical sounds better Big Smile!)

Clicking around their websites should come up with something, though it may take some time...

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

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Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 12:21 AM

SPSOT fan

Check the NP and GN histerical societies. (Yes I mean historical society, but histerical sounds better Big Smile!)

Clicking around their websites should come up with something, though it may take some time...

I have checked the NP site and struck out. I haven't explored the GN site that much as that is more of a backburner project. (Just looking around the couch I have five projects in various states of finishing that are all waiting for various things. I'm also building a new layout so that adds to the projects.)

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by NHTX on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 12:43 AM

     FRRYKid,

     May I suggest a book you need to have in your library if you have more than a passing interest in Great Northern freight equipment, especially boxcars?  It is "Great Northern Equipment Color Pictorial Book One-Boxcars & Stock Cars" by Scott R. Thompson, Four Ways West Publications, ISBN 1-885614-03-9.

     It is an all color book devoted to the coverage of GN's boxcar roster as it existed in 1969.  The book was published in 1995, 25 years after the BN merger, which means it is the definitive work on the subject, since there won't be any more car orders for the GN. The book addresses each class of car in roster order and a complete roster effective 1969 is included.  I attempted to find some down-on shots of car roofs but like so many books, the emphasis is on the equipment at ground level.  Also, some aspects of your request need clarification.

     You say you have a car in the 2001## series.  Is the number 2001 or in fact 200133?  It makes a great difference because cars in th 2000s started at 2501 and all were express boxcars not intended for freight service.  If those two pound signs in your post were a mistake and were meant to be threes, it makes a heck of a difference.  Cars in the 200130-200177 were built by Pacific Car and Foundry  in 1967, after running boards were outlawed.  They came painted in the glacier green scheme with the red, black and white circular herald.  These cars are dead ringers for the Athearn Genesis PC&F 10'6" plug door boxcars but on the GN they were classed RBL for bunkerless reefers.  There are pictures of three cars in this number group in the book but no roof shots.

     You mentioned cars with aluminum roofs having running boards that had been removed and, the weathering patterns on these cars.  The book does have a picture showing the roof of 200054, also an RBL.  Remember, aluminum does not rust so, other than general dirt and dust from the atmosphere, the roofs of these cars stayed fairly clean.  Any rust came from any steel on the roof,such as running boards and their supports and roof ribs.  The photo shows concentrations of rust along the peak of the roof where it would be expected from the runnig board and supports, as well as some discoloration of a rust colored nature where the running board laterals approached the side ladders.

    Your Northern Pacific car is a bit more obscure.  The only picture I could find other than the one in the NPCG was one of 38210 in "Classic Freight Cars-The Series, Vol.7 by Henry Maywald from H&M Productions,  ISBN 1-882608-08-9.  Since these were older cars originally built in 1945, I would rust the roof more heavily, especially were the galvanizing has worn off

 

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Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 1:11 AM

NHTX

     FRRYKid,

     May I suggest a book you need to have in your library if you have more than a passing interest in Great Northern freight equipment, especially boxcars?  It is "Great Northern Equipment Color Pictorial Book One-Boxcars & Stock Cars" by Scott R. Thompson, Four Ways West Publications, ISBN 1-885614-03-9.

     It is an all color book devoted to the coverage of GN's boxcar roster as it existed in 1969.  The book was published in 1995, 25 years after the BN merger, which means it is the definitive work on the subject, since there won't be any more car orders for the GN. The book addresses each class of car in roster order and a complete roster effective 1969 is included.  I attempted to find some down-on shots of car roofs but like so many books, the emphasis is on the equipment at ground level. 

I might see if my library can get that as an Interlibrary loan. I don't foresee needing it as the GN is not my primary interest.

NHTX


Also, some aspects of your request need clarification.

     You say you have a car in the 2001## series.  Is the number 2001 or in fact 200133?  It makes a great difference because cars in th 2000s started at 2501 and all were express boxcars not intended for freight service.  If those two pound signs in your post were a mistake and were meant to be threes, it makes a heck of a difference.  Cars in the 200130-200177 were built by Pacific Car and Foundry  in 1967, after running boards were outlawed.  They came painted in the glacier green scheme with the red, black and white circular herald.  These cars are dead ringers for the Athearn Genesis PC&F 10'6" plug door boxcars but on the GN they were classed RBL for bunkerless reefers.  There are pictures of three cars in this number group in the book but no roof shots.

     You mentioned cars with aluminum roofs having running boards that had been removed and, the weathering patterns on these cars.  The book does have a picture showing the roof of 200054, also an RBL.  Remember, aluminum does not rust so, other than general dirt and dust from the atmosphere, the roofs of these cars stayed fairly clean.  Any rust came from any steel on the roof,such as running boards and their supports and roof ribs.  The photo shows concentrations of rust along the peak of the roof where it would be expected from the runnig board and supports, as well as some discoloration of a rust colored nature where the running board laterals approached the side ladders.

The # symbols are wild cards used to represent all the possible numbers for the series.

NHTX

    Your Northern Pacific car is a bit more obscure.  The only picture I could find other than the one in the NPCG was one of 38210 in "Classic Freight Cars-The Series, Vol.7 by Henry Maywald from H&M Productions,  ISBN 1-882608-08-9.  Since these were older cars originally built in 1945, I would rust the roof more heavily, especially were the galvanizing has worn off

Given that those cars were rebuilt with the double doors, I wonder if the roof would have been repainted at that time. That book is also one that I will talk to the library about an ILL.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 9:25 AM

Check this out for the NP, from the NPRHA,

http://www.nprha.org/Lists/Rolling%20Stock%20Roster/Standard%20View.aspx

It doesn't have photos, but it does have drawings/diagrams.

Mike.

 

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Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 12:39 PM

NHTX

"Great Northern Equipment Color Pictorial Book One-Boxcars & Stock Cars" by Scott R. Thompson, Four Ways West Publications, ISBN 1-885614-03-9.

"Classic Freight Cars-The Series, Vol.7 by Henry Maywald from H&M Productions,  ISBN 1-882608-08-9. 

I checked with my library this morning and unfortunately, they were unable to get either of those books. One couldn't be found in any library in the US and the other was only in one and they don't loan it out. I also did a quick check on Amazon. The GN book was something like $54 for the least expensive. The other one was shown for $14.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by NHTX on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:18 PM

      Before you spend any money, I suggest you check with these seller's of railbooks:

                                             Karen's Books

                                             McMillan Publications

                                             railroadbooks.biz

                                             Ron's Books

      The good thing about buying a book is, it's yours to keep.  You never have to return it and, you can refer to it whenever you need to.

                                                          NHTX

 

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Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:24 PM

I emailed the NP/GN Joint Archives earlier and they sent me a picture of what I was looking for. Now just to find images of the NP car.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:40 PM

Did you check out the link I sent you to the NP historical society?

Mike.

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Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:02 PM

I did finally. Didn't help with roof shot need. However, I did find that I need to remove the roofwalk. That also means I will need to find some roofwalk plugs. That also tells me the roof most likely would have been painted.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:12 PM

Probably would have been painted, but many of the cars that the running boards were removed, the brackets remained.

For a plug, you could use sprue stock from kits.  File to make it fit the hole, nice and tight.

Mike.

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