Help Putting Together The Royal Train Consist

[doctorwayne]

gmpullman

...Rebuilt heavyweights have been the bane of passenger modelers. It seems these "betterment" cars are ignored by the mainstream manufacturers....

I can certainly agree with you on that one, Ed.  Were I modelling a more recent era than the late '30s, I'd certainly redo a heavyweight car or two in the style of the betterment cars - the CNR had quite a few of them, and there's no reason why my freelanced roads couldn't have a couple, too.

Wayne

[gmpullman]

doctorwayne

I dunno, Ed, I think those are 1954-built lightweight cars, and quite different than the heavyweights which were used.

Here's the 1330 in later years:

CNR_diner_1331 by Edmund, on Flickr

^{A Roger Pu-ta Photograph}

Rebuilt heavyweights have been the bane of passenger modelers. It seems these "betterment" cars are ignored by the mainstream manufacturers.

Yes, the future offering of the Rapido car is of a more modern design yet the pure heavyweight looks "too old".

I recently painted a pair of diners that the Nickel Plate and the Erie-Lackawanna used in later years. They were rebuilt heavyweights similar to CNR 1330.

EL_DinerLounge by Edmund, on Flickr

Riveted steel plates below the belt rail and modern windows and smooth sides above.

NKP_DL131 by Edmund, on Flickr

I think my main gist of the reply was to let Mr. Shron know that there is interest in a dining car of the rebuilt heavyweight variety. Many railroads used "modernized" diners since they were one of the most expensive cars to buy new.

Interesting story here:

http://thelifeofanangloamerican.blogspot.com/2014/06/when-king-came-to-america.html

 

Regards, Ed

[doctorwayne]

I dunno, Ed, I think those are 1954-built lightweight cars, and quite different than the heavyweights which were used.

Even if the Rivarossi diner didn't match the real ones, it might be a better stand-in once painted in the proper colours, and especially price-wise.

Here's my not-much-modified version of the Rivarossi diner...

...and its simple interior...

I don't know if the Royal Train had a "Mountain Observation" car in its consist, but the Rivarossi coach is almost dead-on for length, and the conversion is fairly simple.  The arched roof is from the Rivarossi RPO....

....but perhaps a little too windy for those royal chapeaus, eh?

While I've converted all of my Rivarossi Pullmans into day coaches....

.....with little in the way of other modifications, New England Rail Services offers a wide range of replacement windows and blank panels specifically to fit these cars, so you could probably match many of the cars which were the accommodations for royal staff and the lesser dignitaries, too.

Wayne

[gmpullman]

Maybe it won't directly help you build a Royal consist but Rapido just announced a new Pullman-Standard C-N dining car.

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rapido-News-105---All-new-dining-cars-and-videos-.html?soid=1101318906379&aid=IoZWCkbnRAI

 

Give Jason a nudge so he might consider at least painting a run of these in Royal colors?

Regards, Ed

[BATMAN]

Bear!

Many pipes indeed, and Canada just made pot legal in Canada so I might have to put some of that in the pipe to help deal with the frustration of getting a start on this project. I do appreciate all the suggestions I am getting.

A few pics I have come across.

 

 

 

 

https://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/the_fixer/2012/07/16/the_fixer_historic_private_rail_car_back_on_track_to_raise_money_for_alzheimers_research.html 

 

 

[CNCharlie]

Brent,

I have a photo in a book of the train taken as it was coming into Vancouver. It was taken from a distance and is quite grainy but it appears that the aluminum finish is the same as on the tender and runs the length of the train. The loco is #2850. 

I have Branchline kit of a heavyweight sleeper on my workbench and I think it would be very hard to modify as the sides are rather thin. Most parts seem to be quite delicate. It is decorated in CN green and black. 

CN Charlie

["JaBear"]

Gidday Brent, Sherlock Holmes occasionally had what he called “3 pipe problems” and doing research on this topic would definitely come under that criteria, in my book. (though it’s some years since I gave up smoking). So, I’d call it a three plus, coffee problem.

 

I take it, after some rather convoluted searching, that a good number of the cars still exist, though how close to their ‘39 configurations is another question. However, the floor plans do give you the door and window positions, so all is not lost.

 

 As the Good Doctor has already mentioned the Rivarossi cars have the length, and are cheap enough for kit bashing purposes.

 

It would be nice if Jason Shon would let you know what “Royal Blue” was, though as you’re buying the blue Rapido Royal Hudson, you’ll be able to colour match anyway.

 

The only other problem, as I see it is, getting the right amount of plushness in the interior detailing.

 

A good project to keep you occupied during the Northern Winter. Have Fun,

Cheers, the Bear.

[doctorwayne]

Most of my passenger cars are heavyweights, but pretty-much all built from older models, mostly Rivarossi and some Athearn.  The latter are too short for most of what was in the Royal train, and I've read of lots of supposed shortcomings for the Rivarossi cars.
However, they're affordable and fairly easy to kitbash or modify, as New England Rail Services has various window sets made specifically for Rivarossi heavyweights.  I believe that they also have other detail parts for those cars, and Precision Scale has lots of suitable underbody detail, too.

This car is a Rivarossi Pullman, converted to a solarium car using NERS windows and air conditioning ductwork. 

 

The underbody details are mostly scratchbuilt, along with some parts from PSC...

Of the Rivarossi cars, probably the most useful will be the Pullmans, Observation, and Diner, along with the baggage cars.
I think that Walthers has a fairly comprehensive line of heavyweights, too, and they probably are more accurate representations of prototypes, but are also more expensive. 
A lot will depend on which are closest to the ones in the real train, but if you need to hack-up a few to better match the real cars, the Rivarossi may be a viable option - I often see them at train shows for ten bucks or less.
The Former Branchline (now Atlas) cars could prove useful,too, but I'm not really familiar with what they have to offer - I have a couple of their coaches, but I doubt they could be re-worked into anything suitable for your train.  Their Pullman cars could be suitable, though, as I believe they offered several versions.

If you can get cars similar to the real ones, and perhaps modify a couple to be more exact copies, the paint job to tie everything together would likely make a very acceptable stand-in.

Wayne

[BATMAN]

Thanks, Wayne. 

As yet I have not acquired a heavyweight car of any type. What are your picks as far as favourite manufacturer? I will start doing some research as Vancouver's really big train show is on November 10th. Your eye for detail far exceeds mine, so suggestions are appreciated. 

Thanks.

[doctorwayne]

BATMAN

...I wonder what they used to enclose the observation deck on those cars?....

Brent, the book which I mentioned previously notes that the cars Atlantic and Pacific both had vestibule diaphragms at both ends.  In the as-built photo of the car, only the rear of the car is thus-fitted.

The design is much like the early narrow vestibule cars which superceded the open platforms at both ends of most early passenger cars:  there's a narrow vestibule with a diaphragm, and a small open observation deck to either side. 
I can't say for certain how they enclosed them, but I'm guessing that it would look pretty-much like most passenger cars.  There are steps from the observation platforms, but the book doesn't elaborate if the enclosures were fitted with doors, so that the stpes could be used, or simply closed-in completely.

BATMAN

...I was hoping the cars wouldn't be uniquely Canadian and be available off the shelf....

Other than the narrow vestibule, the car looks like pretty-much any North America heavyweight observation car of the period.

Personally, I can't imagine that Rapido would do any of the cars for the Royal train, as I don't think there'd be much of a market for them.

Wayne

[BATMAN]

I dunno rich, I would be in if he did, probably $1400.00 CA at least. The sets of the Canadian seem to be fetching good money these days. I would have to tell the family not to throw the Royal Train in the dumpster when I croak. 

I would like to know how many Hudsons he manufactured and especially how many of the blue ones. Just for curiosity sake. 

I found this pic on FB. It appears the cladding is between the windows and the sills are painted. So are the sills painted a stainless colour or white? Anyone make this car or something close?

[richhotrain]

Two observations about Rapido and the Royal Blue train.

Jason could always set up a pre-order reservation system, and if he doesn't reach the minimum required order to breakeven, he could always cancel the order.

Also, now that Rapido has produced the Royal Train blue version locomotive, I'll bet that the passenger car consist is on the drawing board.

Rich

[BATMAN]

Methinks this is not going to be as successful an endeavor as I was hoping for. I have talked to a lot of people about it at train shows, different online venues, and MRR shops. I wrote Rapido asking if they could include a detailed pamphlet on the consist and include it with the Loco or post it on their website. So far no response and I hope that is because they are mulling over the possibility. I have always had prompt replies in the past. I can't see them ever producing the train as there just wouldn't be a large enough market for it.

The white you see along the side of the coaches apparently is a stainless diamond cladding that shows up as white when the photo's were colourized.

I wonder what they used to enclose the observation deck on those cars? I think if I focus on the baggage cars up front and the rear of the train the (stand-ins) won't be as noticeable.

I was hoping the cars wouldn't be uniquely Canadian and be available off the shelf. What was I thinking? Brass may be the only way to go on this one, I just need to cross match and carry my list in my wallet. Won't be the first time.

[richhotrain]

Speaking of Jason, with the Royal Train locomotive #2850 now in production from Rapido, isn't it just a matter of time until Rapido produces the entire consist of Royal blue passenger cars?

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rapido-News-104---Steam-Engines--Videos--Buses-and-More-.html?soid=1101318906379&aid=pLJ_BXj0K7E

Rich

[richhotrain]

Where is Jason when you really need him?   

Rich

[doctorwayne]

Brent, pictures of some of the cars from that train may be in the Lepkey/West book "Canadian National Railways Passenger Equipment  1867-1992",but if so, they'll be in b&w and in their regular CNR paint scheme of the time in which they were photographed.

A quick search yielded a picture of only one of the listed cars, CN 1196 "Atlantic", but it's an as-built photo, when the car was a buffet/lounge/observation/sleeping car.

According to the book, CN 1195, "Pacific" was also in the Royal Train, and the observation platforms of both cars were enclosed for the duration of the Royal Tour.

There's also a photo of CN 1334, a dining car from the same lot as CN 1330.  However, the listed capacity for each of the six cars in that lot is 32 in dining and 12 in the lounge, but convertible to dining for 48.  I suspect that the 1330 was converted to seat 40 for dining, in somewhat less crowded circumstances, and unlikely for use by the Royals themselves.

There may be brass models of some or all of the cars, but I think that you may have to use some stand-ins to get a suitable train of any believeable length.

Wayne

[BATMAN]

riogrande5761

Could be royally spendy.

 

Can't take it with me.

[riogrande5761]

Could be royally spendy.

[BATMAN]

Okay, I may be asking a lot here, but here goes.

I am getting the "Royal Train" blue version of Rapidos Royal Hudson and I want to start to put together the consist of cars to go behind it. There does not seem to be a lot on it, at least where I have been looking. 

My biggest question is what model company makes the nicest version of each of the cars? With train show season upon us, it is time to start trying to pick them up. If they have ever even been available. Are they still available new?

Here is a start. All help appreciated. If you go to the website you can click on each car.

http://www.themetrains.com/royal-train-roster.htm 

 

ROYAL TRAIN CARS	ROYAL TRAIN CAR NOTES
*		The cars of the Royal Train were decorated in royal blue with a car-length band of aluminum running across the window area. The aluminum panels were applied in diamond-shaped designs to flash more brilliantly in the sun. Above and below the windows were thin gold bands running the length of each car. The last two cars, where the King and Queen stayed, carried the royal coat of arms in the center under the windows. Each car featured a radio and telephone. The six Canadian National cars were prepared at their Point St. Charles shops. The six Canadian Pacific cars were prepared at their Angus shops. All but the last two cars of the train carried the royal cypher and crown centered below their window lines and a royal crown at each end of the blue stripe above the window line.
12		CP End Door Baggage Car 4473. Contained a small Bellis & Morcom vertical steam engine driving a 75KW 40 to 75 volt generator to supply the train with electricity. This was powered by steam from the locomotive. Also contained a set of six floodlights to illuminate the train and its surroundings at night.
11		CP Baggage Sleeper 4484. Contained refrigerated food storage and a telephone PBX switchboard to connect the train with telephone service at various stops. Also contained a steam pressing table, ironing board and storage for uniforms and linens. The car also provided sleeping quarters for some of the train's staff.
10		CN Dining Car 1330 -- the latest type put into service -- with seating for 40.
9		CP 8-Section-4-Bedroom Sleeping Car VICEROY -- provided sleeping quarters for several Canadian Mounties, plus a barber shop.
8		CP 14-Chambrette Car GRAND PRE -- held the Train Office and provided sleeping accommodations for several officials. The car now resides at the Canadian Museum of Rail Travel in Cranbrook, B.C and may eventually be restored to its Royal Train livery.
7		CN Business Car 99. Used by the Lord-in-Waiting and the Lord Chamberlain.
6		CN 6-Compartment Lounge Car ATLANTIC 1196 used by other members of the royal party.
5		CP Private Car WENTWORTH was used by the Prime Minister and his staff. Currently in service as the "Royal Wentworth" with the Royal Canadian Pacific Tour Train out of Calgary.
4		CN 6-Compartment Lounge Car PACIFIC 1197 used by other members of the royal party.
3		CP 14-Chambrette Car GRAND MANAN. Provided accommodations for the personal servants of Their Majesties.
2		CN Governor General's Car #2. This car featured a large sitting room, and, ahead of that, a dining room with seating for 12. The car carried the royal coat of arms centered below the windows. Preserved at the Canada Technology and Science Museum in Ottawa, ON.
1		CN Governor General's Car #1 - Open end observation car. Contained two bedroom suites for the King and Queen, a sitting room overlooking the rear platform, and two bedrooms for members of the royal staff. The car carried the royal coat of arms centered below the windows. The royal couple only left the train overnight in four places during the tour -- Ottawa, the Rocky Mountain resorts of Banff and Jasper, and Victoria, BC.   Preserved at the Canada Technology and Science Museum in Ottawa, ON.
*	PILOT TRAIN LOCOMOTIVES