UPDATE:
I misinterpreted some info on "my" trains, so I'll correct it.
I am talking about trains 3 & 4 on the SP&S in the summer of 1945. The trains ran from Portland to Pasco. There were two consists. Each consist laid over in each city for approximately 17 hours. The consists passed each other at Cliffs, WA (if they were on schedule).
My error was assuming a consist made a round-trip in one day, leaving the other to wait for a day (or two). In fact, EACH laid over for a VERY long time in each city. This was eventually noticed by management, and the job was later done by one consist, only.
I have yet to find out how the consists were treated during those 17 hours. I am convinced most of that time, they were empty and parked. How long can it take to clean 3 cars after a short run? And I have yet to find out if postal or express was handled in a different building than passengers for either Portland or Pasco.
Ed
Short local trains wouldn't need servicing the way long-distance trains would. On the Great Northern, they ran a morning Badger train between the Twin Cities and Duluth/Superior (and vice versa) which would turn around in the afternoon and become the Gopher and return back to it's starting point. The parlor car on the end had tailsigns for both trains on both ends of the car, so it didn't need to be turned.
Larry,
I'm talking about Portland in July of 1945. There were very roughly 10 trains through a day.
I've raised questions about this train at the SP&S HS Group. There've been a couple of answers so far. When things settle down, I'll bring that info back.
I was surprised to find that the trains did their layover* at Pasco or Spokane, a long way from the "center" of the railroad. I suspect that's because if things went wrong, they'd still have a full train "out there". And they could make up a new one out of their coach yard, if necessary, in Portland.
*In this case, while one train was making a round trip from Pasco/Spokane to Portland, the other train was laying over an extra day in Pasco/Spokane. And it went out when the other one finished its loop.
7j43kWhether this happened at Portland or not, I think it COULD have happened somewhere. In my opinion. Which goes back to the main point of my comment: The guys who took care of passenger equipment between runs would put cars in the coach yard in a manner that made their jobs easier. Which tends to be the most efficient.
Ed,First what makes sense to us may not be the railroad way because if various safety and union work rules and agreements.
I suspect those stations may have seen very few trains a day unlike major terminals that seen several trains arrive and depart every hour back in the heyday.
In the dying years of the once great American passenger trains then maybe things was done at the station platform with the various brotherhoods agreeing-even they seen the end of the passenger train was near.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
richhotrainHow were observation cars turned? Turntable? Wye? Balloon track?
Depends.
C-N Toronto, Spadina Street, PRR Sunnyside, Queens, both had baloon tracks.
Chicago, Roosevelt Road, New York City, NYC RR. Mott Haven yard, Washington DC, Ivy City all had wyes that could handle the entire train.
Turntable? Ya got me stumped there. Lots of intermediate stations were close to turntables if certain cars were being handled (private cars or business cars) that needed to be turned. There were specific handling instructions (a T.N. in Amtrak years, or Transportstion Notice) which would specify the direction the car was to be turned.
I recall reading that New York Central turned their diners to have the kitchen trailing to keep cooking odors out of the dining area but at the moment I can't confirm this. At one time they did not turn the sleeping cars in order to have the room-side of the car facing the views of the Hudson River. How long this practice went on I can't say.
Many observation and lounge cars were dropped during the War years as there were passenger occupancy numbers that had to be met and the extra handling was adding to the already congested yard trackage.
Cheers, Ed
richhotrain BRAKIE I forgot to mention any REA cars would go to the REA building and any observation cars would need to be turned.. How were observation cars turned? Turntable? Wye? Balloon track? Rich
BRAKIE I forgot to mention any REA cars would go to the REA building and any observation cars would need to be turned..
I forgot to mention any REA cars would go to the REA building and any observation cars would need to be turned..
How were observation cars turned? Turntable? Wye? Balloon track?
Rich
Rich,A lot of terminals had a nearby turntable used to turn obs and in some cases passenger locomotives after being service and inspected at the terminals engine facilities..
Alton Junction
I am thinking about the station at Portland Oregon. It's my impression that the Post Office operated out of the passenger station building. Thus the train could pull in and stop there for loading and unloading of mail. The coaches could also be cleaned at that time. And the train (less locomotive) could have been kept coupled.
Or. The mail could have been loaded and unloaded at the station, and then the whole train run over to the coach yard for cleaning. There may or may not have been a special track for cleaning. There WAS a special track for washing.
As I mentioned, there was a whole day for turn-around.
I don't KNOW all this. And it is an excellent subject to bring up on the SP&S HS Group.
Whether this happened at Portland or not, I think it COULD have happened somewhere. In my opinion. Which goes back to the main point of my comment: The guys who took care of passenger equipment between runs would put cars in the coach yard in a manner that made their jobs easier. Which tends to be the most efficient.
The point wasn't to move lots of cars around. It was to move as few as possible and still get the job done.
Re: the coach-lounge. It was, indeed, "single" ended. But there is a turning loop a mile northwest of the station. Might as well turn the whole train, while we're at it.
7j43kThey typically had a couple of mail storage cars (baggage, to model railroaders), an RPO, a coach or two, and a coach-lounge at the end.
Ed,In that case the RPO and mail storage cars would go to the USPS building while the coaches and the coach-lounge would be sent to the clean out and inspection track then to the coach yard.
BRAKIE 7j43k Why break a group of cars down when you're going to pull them the next day? Ed,The why is easy since pullmans went to the pullman track to be cleaned and resupplied and the diners to the clean out track,inspected by the FDA and then after passing a strick health inspection the diners was switched to the commissary building and was restocked before train time.. Of course the mail cars went to the USPS building.
7j43k Why break a group of cars down when you're going to pull them the next day?
Ed,The why is easy since pullmans went to the pullman track to be cleaned and resupplied and the diners to the clean out track,inspected by the FDA and then after passing a strick health inspection the diners was switched to the commissary building and was restocked before train time..
Of course the mail cars went to the USPS building.
The trains I'm thinking of had no sleeping cars. They had no diners. They typically had a couple of mail storage cars (baggage, to model railroaders), an RPO, a coach or two, and a coach-lounge at the end. Since I kept seeing the same cars every other day on a train, it seemed to me that it would be pointless to scatter them around a coach yard, only to pull them back out and re-assemble the train. Over and over again. And again. And again. While always using the same cars. Instead of different ones.
I do confess that I don't KNOW they kept the train assembled. It just seems like a waste of time not to.
7j43kWhy break a group of cars down when you're going to pull them the next day?
Back in the heyday of passenger trains 3-4 crews could be kept busy switching passenger cars at major passenger terminals.
Some railroads such as Cincinnati Union Terminal and Washington Union Terminal made their living by switching their name shake terminals.
Generally, the cars are/were stored in the most efficient manner available. For example, I believe, on the SP&S, that entire "trains" were stored as is. This is because I have seen alternate-dayed consists running. Why break a group of cars down when you're going to pull them the next day?
This wasn't true of every other car. Some were stored "loose". You might find a photo of a coach yard for a railroad of your interest. For the SP&S, there are a few around.
Hey Guys. This may have been addressed in the past, but I'm wondering... Passenger train cars are "stored" in the coach yard, and I assume retrieved and assembled into the various consists before being put into service. Are the cars stored on separate tracks in the coach yard by "type", i.e. diners together, observation cars, baggage, sleepers, etc? So when you go to assemble a consist, are the switchers looking for a particular coach by car number, or do they just grab whichever one is parked on the end of the track? Are the consists assembled in the coach yard, or arranged in order on the track at the station? Also, at a station that serves multiple railroads, does each "owner" have their own separate coach yard area? Thanks!