If anyone is interested, here is the unloading area in San Bernardino California. It is located just southwest of the intermodal yard and passenger station.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0946237,-117.3236273,1518m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
chutton01 joe323 Might be too modern but I ordered the A - Line kit anyway. Still better than a piece of cardboard Well, according to an image in this extract of a 1969 issue of Railway Age magazine, the A-Line doesn't look drastically different (the main thing that jumps out is there are no handrails).
joe323 Might be too modern but I ordered the A - Line kit anyway. Still better than a piece of cardboard
Well, according to an image in this extract of a 1969 issue of Railway Age magazine, the A-Line doesn't look drastically different (the main thing that jumps out is there are no handrails).
No it doesn't I am thinking that the kit can probably be built without the handrails thanks for sharing
Joe Staten Island West
joe323Might be too modern but I ordered the A - Line kit anyway. Still better than a piece of cardboard
Might be too modern but I ordered the A - Line kit anyway. Still better than a piece of cardboard
joe323 I have one other question where can I source HO scale ramps for loading the auto racks? Seems like they would need to be adjustable to reach all the levels.
I have one other question where can I source HO scale ramps for loading the auto racks? Seems like they would need to be adjustable to reach all the levels.
Ok so mapped the UP facilities in Westfield TX and think I undestand now. The autoracks are lined up in groups and must be loaded end to end with the cars driven from the ramp through all the auto racks to the end of rge last one then repeat until all the racks are filled.
One last thing.
When you park your new vehicles out in the parking lot, wheels go on the line, not between. It optimizes space between vehicles and as a result, minimizes damage.
I always wonder why shopping malls, etc. didn't adopt that practice. Makes too much sense I suppose.
Heartland Division CB&QPickup trucks are lined up and ready to load.
.
I love those pictures with all those brand new two-toned trucks.
I miss two toned paint jobs.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Auto loading and unloading requires cars to be spotted with the vehicles facing the unloading area.
Bilevels are spotted next to other bilevels, tri's with tri's so the decks match.
We used to drive through no more than five cars.
Shorter stub tracks seemed to work OK, although be able to access both ends of cuts saved the switch crew from having to turn cars to unload. When you load, you just drive them in forward from the ramp.
Many UP facilities had "portable" ramps. The ramp was mounted on a frame with a motor to drive around the cars. Some ramps used fixed docks, but they had disadvantages. The portable ramps were very flexiible.
Having said all this, you can look at google maps for Westfield TX, which hosts a large UP destination ramp. There are 5 through tracks to unload on. Each can host 3 cuts of 5 cars. If business is heavy, you can shove a few more between the lead and the unloading pavement. The area around the tracks is paved, the main unloading points have concrete like grade crossings. All for flexibility and damage prevention. You have to have enough room at the end of the cars for the portable ramp and the vehicle being unloaded to turn into the parking area. There are 3 long support tracks outside the actual unloading ramp.
It's quite an adventure to drive through 5 multilevels on the third deck to get to the ramp, which are narrow and steep. All you see is sky out the front windshield until the car gets on the ramp. If the ramp is wet, it can feel like a controlled fall heading down.
The vehicles in the railcars are a tight fit. Skinny people are best suited to climbing up into the railcars, moving through tightly packed vehicles, then squeezing into the vehicle to drive them off. Repeat until all the cars are unloaded!
If you google map Reisor LA, you can spot the old GM load out. Stub tracks with fixed ramps. There's a small UP unload just east. It's much smaller than Westfield and has 5 stub tracks, each holding 2 cuts of 5 cars with room at the ends for unloading.
Good luck!
Seems to me that autoracks would need a lot of real estate to load and unload by hand so to speak. Wondering what such a facility would be like a series of stub end sidings?
jeffhergert The smell from the tomato sauces lasted for about a week after they reopened the tracks. Jeff
A smell I used to be treated to every fall when I was down wind of the Hunt-Wesson tomato plant on the north side of Davis California. It was served by the Southern Pacific at the time and mostly tank cars as I recall and switched by a GP9
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
About 15 years ago, we had a derailment involving a hand full of auto racks. Some were on their side, while one only had one truck derailed. All of those involved, including the one with only one truck derailed had their loads scrapped. (The one hired to do the scrapping was a salvage company on the opposite side of the tracks from where the derailment happened.)
The reason given was that the auto company didn't want any trouble with liability down the road from the involved vehicles or even parts salvaged from the vehicles involved. Even those that vehicles that probably didn't sustain any damage. They don't want to take the chance. The auto racks were loaded with Cadillac Escalades.
The derailment happened on double track, one train derailing into the side of another passing on the other track. Other cars involved were loaded with tomato paste or sauces. The smell from the tomato sauces lasted for about a week after they reopened the tracks.
Jeff
NHTX Can someone verify the existance of a law, rule, or other directive requiring automobiles on racks that were involved in derailments be destroyed, even though the damage to the automobile was minor. I remember a conversation with some SP employees about a pileup in Arizona or New Mexico, where bulldozers were used to crush the automobiles at the derailment site to prevent their possible use by anyone.
Can someone verify the existance of a law, rule, or other directive requiring automobiles on racks that were involved in derailments be destroyed, even though the damage to the automobile was minor. I remember a conversation with some SP employees about a pileup in Arizona or New Mexico, where bulldozers were used to crush the automobiles at the derailment site to prevent their possible use by anyone.
i recall that rule was in effect in the 1970’s and 1980’s , and it was the auto companies that set the rule. I recall seeing a group of new autos set aside in an auto loading and unloading facility on the CN near Toronto. I was told they came off of auto racks damaged in a derailment. They were to be shipped back to the auto companies where they would be scrapped. I have not heard about bulldozers being used as you said, but that would not surprise me.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
NHTX bulldozers were used to crush the automobiles
Russell
Dave1905 is correct. Damage while unloading is infrequent.
During my involvement with auto traffic on UP, both UP and the AAR audited auto ramps carefully to insure not only loading/unloading but also securement (chocks, straps, chains depending on era and equipment type), parking (auto ramps park on the lines to insure a standard spacing), employee cleanliness (ramp employees are required to wear clean jumpers which are sometimes changed mid-shift to insure vehicle interiors are not dirtied and exteriors are not scratched by buttons, zippers or buckles etc.), and railcar cleanliness (no rust or debris inside rail cars.) And more. Parking areas had to be in good repair and debris free. Fences well maintained. Plus security audits. These were very extensive audits.
UP had a really good management system for meeting customer expectations. Our competitors did too.
Great pictures and text Garry, thanks!
Mike.
My You Tube
BATMAN I have always wondered how many vehicles were damaged in the loading and unloading process by drivers, any idea?
Actually very little. I know most of the auto manufacturers are very picky about how the autos are transported, Toyota in particular. They investigate any damage and trace it back to the root cause.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Ed ... Thank you for posting the diagram of the saddleback car.
Jeff ... Thank you for the interesting information about shipping Winnebago motor homes. I think the Rock Island car being tested for GMC motor homes may have been also tested for Winnebago.
.....
Below are copies of photos I just scannned in old GTW annual reports that I found with my collection of stuff.
In the mid-1980's, the Oldsmobile assembly plant in Lansing, MI had ramps directly connected to the building. Automobiles would be driven off the assembly line and directly onto the railcars. The ramps were adjacent to the GTW main line. The arrangement kept rain and snow off of the new Oldsmobiles.
Terminology .... The railroad refered to auto racks as bi-levels or tri-levels... If refering to both, they were called multi-levels.
Heartland Division CB&Q Also, I recall an experimental enclosed flat car tested to haul GMC motor homes from the GMC assembly plant in Pontiac. ( Who rememebrs the GMC motor homes ?) ... The car on the outside looked like an enclosed tri-level or an enclosed bi-level. However, inside it only had the flat car deck. The test load I observed was a motor home shipped round trip to Iowa and back. Upon return, the motor home was inspected for damage. Some bolts unscrewed in transit from a panel in the rear of the motor home and fell onto the flat car deck. .... I'm not sure why, but no more such railcars were built. The experimental railcar was owned by Rock Island Railroad which hauled a lot of GM traffic in its day.
Also, I recall an experimental enclosed flat car tested to haul GMC motor homes from the GMC assembly plant in Pontiac. ( Who rememebrs the GMC motor homes ?) ... The car on the outside looked like an enclosed tri-level or an enclosed bi-level. However, inside it only had the flat car deck. The test load I observed was a motor home shipped round trip to Iowa and back. Upon return, the motor home was inspected for damage. Some bolts unscrewed in transit from a panel in the rear of the motor home and fell onto the flat car deck. .... I'm not sure why, but no more such railcars were built. The experimental railcar was owned by Rock Island Railroad which hauled a lot of GM traffic in its day.
Some years ago, Winnebago tested using a modified enclosed auto rack for hauling motor homes out of it's plant at Forest City, Iowa. This test was either late CNW or early UP ownership of the branch that served Forest City and the plant. Originally it was a Rock Island branch line. Which may explain why they were interested in developing an enclosed car for motor homes.
Somewhere in my books and articles about the Milwaukee Road there is an item about open auto racks. An employee reminisced about a notice posted to check the top deck of vehicle loads destined to the west coast via the MILW, to make sure the radio antennas were fully telescoped down. He said that some vehicles were arriving with their radios fried and at first they weren't sure why. Then someone figured out what was happening. It seems that some antennas were left fully extended and had made contact with the catenary out in the electricfied zones.
This drawing showing saddleback loading could be useful:
Note that the racks for the front wheels can fold up and out of the way.
Ed
PC101 ... Thanks for commenting.
...
Another railcar for hauling vehicles is the saddleback car.
I recall GTW hauled large numbers of new truck tractors from the GMC assembly plant in Pontiac. They were shipped on saddle back cars which were 89' flat cars equipped for this service.
I searched the internet for what looked like a saddleback car with GMC trucks in Pontiac, and I did not find one.... The picture below, however, does show a loaded saddleback car.
Thank you very much HD CB&Q for starting this subject. A Thank you to the others that post infomation here about Autoracks.
NWP SWP , Brent, and Rio Grande .... Thanks for commenting.
Brent ... I recall there were accidents occuring when vehicles were loaded and unloaded, but don't know any statistics about that. .... Drivers of vehicles would drive through the railcars very fast at times. ... I recall one instance loading at an assembly plant in the open auto rack era. The driver of a new GM car started too soon. The railroad crew had not completed switching. They spotted two or three auto racks at the ramp, but the next block of auto racks was separated by about 20' to 30'. The driver was unable to stop in time when he saw the gap, and the new GM car crashed between the auto racks onto the track .
I can't recall much about sealing the end doors. I know that was an issue being addressed by mechanical engineers when they were designing the end doors.
There were other experimental enclosed railcars in the early to mid 1970's that I did not mention. I remember Southern Railway had an articulated enclosed tri-level car at the time.
Thanks for posting the photo's and text Garry. The Vert-a-pac photo is one of the most widely circulated. I have around six of the ExactRail Vert-a-pac cars as D&RGW did haul those from around 1968 (don't remember the start date) thru 1977, which I think is the last year the Vega's were shipped and then the flat cars were de-racked.
Garry, I have always wondered how many vehicles were damaged in the loading and unloading process by drivers, any idea? Through work, I would often be down at the docks watching these guys driving new cars off the ships from Asia and into rail cars at breakneck speed and often wondered how often they hit things.
On occasion, we would receive and /or send special vehicles for different government agencies in car carriers. Sometimes we would just go get them where they were unloading them along with the rest of the cars, however, there were times when we had the railcar pulled to a remote usually deserted place like a no longer used lumber yard across the City for a more private unveiling. We would bring our own ramps.
I remember checking to make sure the seal was intact upon arrival and would sometimes attach a cable seal with a big honkin seal press if shipping, just to make sure nobody had entered. Did they ever put seals on Railcars when shipping just regular auto's?
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
As Jeff said, the auto racks were assigned to pools with one pool for each assembly plant. ... That means at least half of the miles traveled is with empty racks. Trains running beween Michigan and Texas (for example ) could have both loaded auto racks and empty auto racks coupled together.
As business analyist, I wondered if there could be ways of reducing empty miles. I remember asking my boss about that, and we decided to try working with connecting railroads to develop two way hauls. We worked with the parent company, Canadian National, to try the idea. We established a two-way rate between Lansing, MI and Oshawa, Ontario. GM had an assembly plant in each of hose cities. GM gladly shipped at the reduced rate.
After that, my career path took me out of marketing and into finance at GTW, and I was therefore involved with different stuff. A few years later, I worked at other companies instead of railroads. Thus, first hand knowledge of auto racks became unavailable to me.
However, I am aware the entire rail industry pooled the auto racks after I left the railroad. At first, the Association of American Railroads managed the pool . Later, Trailer Train managed the pool. Auto racks are not assigned to single plants. Empty auto racks are dispatched to closer assembly plants, and utilization is improved.
Many thanks to those who took the time to read this thread. .... If I think of more to add, I will.
I can shoot some photos of the UPs Port Allen autorack yard next time I make it across the river.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!