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Reporting marks longer than four letters? And reporting marks for the NWP-SWP System

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, September 15, 2018 9:44 PM

Yes copy paper and Elmers glue diluted with water.

The trick is placing the decal and not touching it otherwise it'll start running and peeling.

By the way it's also a rattle can paint job.

Steve

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Posted by Little Timmy on Saturday, September 15, 2018 7:18 PM

NWP SWP
How's this look?

You did that with "Copy" paper and Elmer's glue ???
Look's pretty good to me !

Rust...... It's a good thing !

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:19 AM

NWP SWP

I'm going to just a put NPSP on the car can call it good.

 
If the name of your railroad is "Northwestern Pacific - Southwestern Pacific", that works. If it's a system made up of two railroads, it would be more realistic to use NWP or SWP as the reporting marks on that particular car. (Some cars would be NWP, some SWP.) You could add something re the "system" above that, or on the right side of the car....
 
                   NWP - SWP
                     SYSTEM
Stix
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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, September 10, 2018 6:01 PM

How's this look?

Steve

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, September 10, 2018 2:48 PM

I'm going to just a put NPSP on the car can call it good.

Steve

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Posted by dehusman on Monday, September 10, 2018 12:39 AM

The field is 4 characters.  Four.  Not six.  No punctuation.   1 to 4 alpha characters.  Once again it you want to model 1900, go for the gusto.  If you want to model since the 1960's then the number is four.  

Begining to sound like a Monty Python sketch.  Anybody seen a Holy Hand Grenade?

 

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Posted by wjstix on Sunday, September 9, 2018 11:26 PM

Reporting marks (2-4 letters and ID number) are required on all rolling stock used in interchange service. It is the one and only legal identification of the car, all other names and slogans and heralds are basically decoration. If the ABC railroad buys a used Union Pacific boxcar, it could just paint over the "UP" in the reporting marks and replace it with "ABC" and the car would be legal as an ABC boxcar. The fact that it still had "UNION PACIFIC" in big letters on it and a big UP shield or a "Be Specific - Ship Union Pacific" slogan wouldn't matter. The reporting marks are what identifies the car.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporting_mark

It's either a system or a railroad, not both. If it's a "system", then it's several connected but legally separate railroads. There wouldn't be jointly owned equipment. A car might say "NWP-SWP SYSTEM" on the upper left, or have an NWP-SWP herald, but the reporting marks on the lower left would be NWP or SWP...like in the Chessie System example I used earlier.

BTW are you basing this on the actual NorthWestern Pacific railroad combining with a free-lance "Southwestern Pacific"? 

Stix
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Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, September 9, 2018 10:54 PM

But the NWP-SWP also owns some of its own rolling stock.

No chance the ARR would allow a grandfathered in rep mark huh?

What I mean is the rep mark be NWP-SWP and when the 4 digit rule went into effect they got a lenience?

Not likely I'm guessing.

Also I've gathered that the rep marks DO NOT need to be on rolling stock? As long as there are plain identifying marks like "NORTHWESTERN PACIFIC" By the car number?

Steve

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Posted by wjstix on Sunday, September 9, 2018 10:31 PM

NWP SWP

So "NPSP" it is?

And as I said the PENNSYLVANIA boxcar did have PRR reporting marks but not on the side of the car, the end of the car had PRR and the car number up near the roof.

 

Assuming the AAR let you use NP (Northern Pacific) and SP (Southern Pacific) together. They might feel it was too likely to be confused with those railroads and assign something else. 

I believe the four-letter maximum came in during the 1940's, before that it was more or less whatever you wanted to do. It appears the Pennsy boxcar was shows a date in the 1930's. I seem to recall that by the 1950's Pennsy cars might still have PENNSYLVANIA spelled out, but "PRR" reporting marks with the ID number.

BTW if your NWP-SWP is a "system", that would mean it was several railroads working together under one umbrella, not one railroad. Each car would carry the three or four letter reporting marks of the railroad that owned it. In the 1970's the "Chessie System" contained several railroads, so equipment carried reporting marks for B&O, C&O, or WM (Western Maryland) despite having "CHESSIE SYSTEM" on the cars, and the Chessie herald.

https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7020/6469185773_60f881de9d_b.jpg

Similar to how in the steam era cars in the New York Central System would have the NYCS herald, but could have reporting marks of NYC (New York Central), MC (Michigan Central), TOC (Toledo & Ohio Central), PE (Peoria & Eastern) etc.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PandE_2831_hm_web.jpg

 

Stix
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Posted by wjstix on Sunday, September 9, 2018 10:23 PM

There are a number of companies that will make custom decals for you that will be better than "copy paper and Elmers glue". Just check out MR, RMC, NG&SLG or any model railroad magazine and you'll find several ads for custom decal makers, or just do an online search on "custom model railroad decals". It's well worth the investment.

Reporting marks can be any color that will show up on your equipment, so if you plan on using a dark color for boxcars etc. choose white or yellow; if a light color, use black. 

BTW it does seem railroads were allowed to 'get away' with non-standard reporting marks for a while. The Missabe used their round herald instead of reporting marks on their ore cars for a long time, which was OK because the ore cars were almost always online - although sometimes they would be interchanged in Superior WI with GN/BN. However, as the Missabe did more 'all-rail' trains, sending ore cars many states away, the gov't cracked down and made them add "DMIR" to the cars. 

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8435/7990655169_4a08b7bce5_z.jpg

 

Stix
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Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, September 9, 2018 9:16 PM

I'm going to have some fun trying to get the reporting mark decals made tomorrow!

All I'm using is copy paper and Elmers glue.

The lettering for the marks should be white right? Majority of rep marks I see are white.

Steve

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Posted by dknelson on Sunday, September 9, 2018 10:40 AM

As I understand it, it is not the railroads that choose their own reporting marks.  They are assigned to avoid duplication.  I guess the AAR does the assigning.

Railroads of course often use abbreviations for their name on locomotives and rolling stock -- they would not have to use their reporting marks or alpha code for this, but for practical reasons I imagine they like to use their AAR supplied reporting marks as their abbreviation as well.

Dave Nelson

 

 

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Posted by NHTX on Sunday, September 9, 2018 10:34 AM

      It is true that AAR reporting marks may contain no more than four letters.  What appears on the cars may be something else.  For example, "Southern" appeared on both the sides and ends of Southern Railway equipment up until the very late 1980s-early 1990s, with "SOU" no place to be seen.

       Add Wabash to the list of non-compliers.  Although they use the WAB reporting mark along with the number on the car sides, they use the full name WABASH on the car ends.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, September 9, 2018 8:02 AM

So "NPSP" it is?

And as I said the PENNSYLVANIA boxcar did have PRR reporting marks but not on the side of the car, the end of the car had PRR and the car number up near the roof.

Steve

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Posted by dehusman on Sunday, September 9, 2018 7:16 AM

First off era matters.

If you are modeling 1900 then you can have more than 4 characters in a reporting mark.

If you are modeling 2000 then you are limited to 4 for the reporting mark.  The railroad can paint something else on the car, but the reporting mark, what's actually on the official car record, what's registered with the AAR, will only be 4 characters.

Once you get past the 1970's and things are computerized, that only lets you enter 4 characters for the reporting marks.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Sunday, September 9, 2018 5:36 AM

gmpullman
I don't know how many railroads were granted permission to use symbols — an ampersand in this case — but the D&RGW did and it totaled five characters, to boot.

I know that I’m being a little flippant, but while complying the following list, reporting marks containing five charters including an ampersand, are not that uncommon, which is why this list contains either 5 letters, or six or more characters including at least one ampersand. I make no claim that it is complete.
 
ADENA     ADENA RAILROAD (SEE W&LE, WHEELING & LAKE ERIE RAILROAD)
ANOT&PJ          ALABAMA, NEW ORLEANS, TEXAS & PACIFIC JUNCTION RWYS LTD.
BWCMCo   BERWIND-WHITE COAL MINING CO.
CAIRO      CARIO RAILROAD
CCCStL     CLEVELAND CINCINNATI CHICAGO & ST. LOUIS RWY
CNO&TP   CINCINNATI, NEW ORLEANS & TEXAS PACIFIC RWY.
CSS&SB   CHICAGO SOUTHSHORE & SOUTH BEND RAILROAD
CSStL      CHICAGO SPRINGFIELD & St. LOUIS RWY
CTHSE      CHICAGO TERRE HAUTE & SOUTHEASTERN RWY
ECIDA     ERIE COUNTY INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AGENCY
FtDDM&S          FORT DODGE, DES MOINES & SOUTHERN.
GDC&RF   GREENVILLE, DEER CREEK & ROLLING FORK RAILROAD
H&BRyT&T   HENDERSON & BREVARD RAILWAY, TELEGRAPH & TELEPHONE CO. (Existed only as a paper railroad. See H&BRy)
HPRA&S   HIGH POINT, RANDLEMAN, ASHEBORO & SOUTHERN RAILROAD (SOUTHERN RWY.)
I&StLRR&C  ILLINOIS & ST. LOUIS RAILROAD & COAL CO.(SOUTHERN RWY. AFTER 1894)
J&BRR&B          JACKSON & BRANDON RAILROAD & BRIDGE CO.
LaFCI&RR   LAFOLLETTE COAL, IRON & RAILROAD CO.
LE&StL   *LOUISVILLE, EVANSVILLE & ST. LOUISCONSOLIDATED RAILROAD
LEE&SW   LAKE ERIE, EVANSVILLE & SOUTHERN RWY
LNA&StLAL  LOUISVBILLE, NEW ALBANY & ST. LOUIS AIR LINE RWY.
NE&SWA   NORTHEAST & SOUTHWEST ALABAMA RAILROAD
OCIDA     ONEIDA COUNTY INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AGENCY
PATCO     PORT AUTHORITY TRANSIT CORPORATION (PHILADELPHIA)
PMCK&Y   PITTSBURGH, MCKEESPORT & YOUGHIOGHENY
R&WPTRy&W  RICHMOND & WEST POINT TERMINAL RAILWAY & WAREHOUSE CO
SC&GExt          SOUTH CAROLINA & GEORGIA EXTENSION RAILROAD
SCC&RR   SOUTH CAROLINA CANAL & RAILROAD CO.
StCRR&C          ST. CLAIR RAILROAD & COAL CO.
TStL&W   TOLEDO, ST. LOUIS & WESTERN (CLOVER LEAF)
WA&MTV   WASHINGTON, ALEXANDRIA & MT. VERNON RAILWAY CO.
WCVM&G WASHINGTON CITY, VIRGINIA MIDLAND & GREAT SOUTHERN RAILROAD
 
Cheers, the Bear.

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, September 9, 2018 4:19 AM

I don't know how many railroads were granted permission to use symbols — an ampersand in this case — but the D&RGW did and it totaled five characters, to boot.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw50230j14.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw50663agd.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw60037jpa.jpg

 

There it is—

Ed

 

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Posted by "JaBear" on Sunday, September 9, 2018 2:44 AM
Gidday Steven, as Ed has already pointed out, Pennsylvania is NOT the reporting mark for the Pennsylvania Railroad, PRR is, assigned by the Association of American Railroads.
 
Neither NPSP or SPNP appears to have been assigned, so I’d suggest that NPSP is the more appropriate one for your railroad.
 
 
Now, regarding your Pennsylvania 68074 photo. By taking the time to carry out a little research, you would have found examples showing that various railroads, at various times, for whatever reasons, also left off the reporting letters, so there would be no reason for you not to do the same, if you so desire.
 
Sometimes it pays to let YOUR fingers do the walking!!
 
Cheers, the Bear.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, September 8, 2018 11:42 PM

Please elaborate on the meaning of "special"

And this is what I meant.

Now using my brain for a moment I'd guess it was OK for the PRR because they still had "PRR" reporting marks on the car, on the ends that is.

Steve

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, September 8, 2018 11:30 PM

NWP SWP

I've seen PRR rolling stock with reporting marks reading "PENNSYLVANIA" and the car number.

How'd they get away with that?

If they did couldn't I do something similar?

 

Their reporting marks were still not over 4 letters long (PRR).  

"PENNSYLVANIA" is not a reporting mark.  

Exceptions were made for very special people (railroads).

Is your railroad very special?

 

 

Ed

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, September 8, 2018 10:25 PM

Oh and the "decals" are going to be basically dark charcoal grey copy paper with white lettering Elmers glued onto a rattle can paint job.

Call me cheap!Laugh

Steve

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Reporting marks longer than four letters? And reporting marks for the NWP-SWP System
Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, September 8, 2018 9:53 PM

OK so I'm getting ready to make some "decals" for my heavy duty flat car to get it into interchange on the MSMRC, so I'm trying to settle in a reporting mark for my system.

Now through much digging I made it back to December of 2017 in a thread started by Kevin (SeeYou190) where I asked about what I could use as rep marks for the NWP-SWP, and I realize looking back I kinda hijacked the thread...

Sorry about that Kevin.Thumbs Up

Anyways back to my point,

I've seen PRR rolling stock with reporting marks reading "PENNSYLVANIA" and the car number.

How'd they get away with that?

If they did couldn't I do something similar?

Like "NORTHWESTERN PACIFIC" 

Or "SOUTHWESTERN"

Or if I have to stick to four letters how bout "NPSP" or "SPNP"?

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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