Suggestion to the OP, what about a GS-4 ? How does it match up to the FEF and the J?
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Comparing the two is a great example of the old adage that buying a diesel was like buying clothes 'off the rack' whereas a steam engine was like a tailor made suit. Each railroad to some extent had built (and often helped design) engines that met their specific needs.
In this case UP needed a fast 4-8-4 to haul passenger trains on the relatively flat part of their lines on the Great Plains, whereas N&W needed a 4-8-4 that could run fast but still tackle the tough mountainous territory it served.
Another link....
https://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=4-8-4
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
yankee flyerCan anyone tell me if the two locos are the same are close to the same?
U.P. FEF Series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_FEF_Series
N&W 4-8-4 Class J https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_and_Western_Railway_class_J_(1941)
Statistics are in the sidebar.
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Also of interest to you, perhaps, the only two Northern types delivered with roller bearings on all axles and cranks were the S1 Niagaras and the Class J. When the other roads saw the results, many of them eventually converted many, if not all, of their 4-8-4's to have roller bearings. Ostensibly, if the road conditions permitted, those engines could now make up some serious timetable deficiencies when they were running late and had several miles of relatively level and straight trackage to use between stops.
Great info, and to top it off that whistle is awsome.
Thanks all.
Lee
yankee flyer Thanks Dave. That's Good info, but I was wondering if the size is the same.. Boiler, wheel base, fire box, In other words is the basic locomotive close? As the kids would say, For not being in the Big Boy class, that UP 844 is one big Dude. Thanks Lee
Thanks Dave.
That's Good info, but I was wondering if the size is the same.. Boiler, wheel base, fire box, In other words is the basic locomotive close?
As the kids would say, For not being in the Big Boy class, that UP 844 is one big Dude.
Thanks
The UP design is older and it generally has less grate surface, Evaporative Heating surface area, and less superheating surface area than does N&W's 611.
The 844's boiler produces 300 psi while 611's tops out at 275. At least, it did when delivered, but I seem to recall they shortly felt the boiler and running gear could handle 300 psi or so and that's what they got out of them. The tractive effort difference, quite a bit of it, is attributable largely to the difference in driver diameters; the main cranks produce close to the same thrust at their respective distances from axle centres, but the smaller drivers make the tractive effort at the tire rims that much higher. Also important in this figuring, though, is the diameter of the cylinder bores, and therefore the working thrust surfaces of the pistons: 25" for the UP engine and 27" for the J.
The Pennsy trialed the Class J once and were the ones who claim officially to have reached 110 mph with it, but I read somewhere that they also burned one of the valves in doing so.
From the 1941 Locomotive Cyclopedia (Kalmbach reprint)
UP 4-8-4 820-834 (I think 844 is same). It reached 102 mph hauling a 1000 ton tesst train.
22 foot drive wheel base. 50' 11" total wheelbase. Firebox 150 1/32" by 96 3/16." Cylinders 25" x 32"
From Model Railroader Cyclopedia Vol 1 Steam Locomotives
N&W Class J. Driver wheelbase 18'9" Overall wheelbase 47' 3 1/2" Cylinders 27" x 32"
Firebox size not given. A Class J hit 110 mph with a 15 car test train - extraordinary for 70" drivers.
Big steam in either case!
Dave Nelson
I have only seen two steam locomotives run by in my lifetime.
One was the GS-4 on the Freedom Train when I was 8, and 611 much more recently.
I have also seen the Santa Fe 4-8-4 on public display in Fort Madison, Iowa.
Yes... These are all VERY big dudes!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
A couple simple Google searches would give you your answers.
NW 611:
UP 844
The N&W engine has more power, and smaller drivers, the UP engine is faster, with noticeably larger drivers.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Hey
Can anyone tell me if the two locos are the same are close to the same?
I was track side when UP 844 came through St. Louis a while back