Hey all,
So, in planning my layout operations, I was considering purchasing a PRR loco such as an H10 because I love the beefy look, and passing it off as a leased locomotive, which I understand was something that branchlines did from time to time.
But I was curious: would the leased locomotive retain the owning road's markings or would it be repainted for the leasing railroad? Was this something that would be negotiated as part of the lease? Also, as to type, I assume that mostly older locos nearing obsolescence would be the ones subject to leasing, not newer locomitives, right? It stands to reason that the home road would want to keep the good stuff in-house.
Any and all input/references gratefully appreciated!
- Adam
When all else fails, wing it!
LonehawkSo, in planning my layout operations, I was considering purchasing a PRR loco such as an H10 because I love the beefy look, and passing it off as a leased locomotive, which I understand was something that branchlines did from time to time.
"Branchlines" don't lease locomotives. A "branchline" is a smaller line of a railroad, but it is part of a larger railroad. "Short lines" are separate, independent railroads.
LonehawkBut I was curious: would the leased locomotive retain the owning road's markings or would it be repainted for the leasing railroad? Was this something that would be negotiated as part of the lease? Also, as to type, I assume that mostly older locos nearing obsolescence would be the ones subject to leasing, not newer locomitives, right?
There are different types of leases. There are "emergency" leases. The ABC shortline, which connects with the PRR, has its own engine, but it has to be shopped for a week, so the ABC leases an engine from the PRR for a short term on a daily rate from the PRR. The PRR engine would not be repainted.
There are leases for intermediate terms, typically for seasonal variations in traffic. The ABC serves a grain region, so every fall there is a rush of traffic. During Aug-Sept-Oct, the ABC leases an extra engine from the PRR to handle the rush. The PRR engine would not be repainted.
The ABC could be a wholey or partly owned subsidiary of the PRR. It might not own any engines and might lease engines from the parent company. If the engines are swapped out frequently the engines would not be repainted. If the engines are "permanently" assigned, then it might be repainted.
If the ABC is leasing the engine from the PRR on a long term basis and the PRR agrees to the terms, the engine might be repainted.
The modern leasing arrangements are not necessarily the same as the arrangements during the end of steam. It would be as likely that the shortline bought a used H10 the PRR was scrapping (in which case they would repaint it). An H10 was the newest and biggest Consolidation the PRR had. Also consider that an H10 is a BIG engine. It has really high axle loadings, is very heavy and very powerful.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
First, I presume that when you said branchline, you meant shortline. Locomotive leases state the conditions of the lease and in most cases reporting marks are not changed. Remember PRRs leasing of ATSF 2-10-4s in 1956 with the giant Santa Fe on the tenders? Pennsy wasn't about to paint that out, only to have to paint it back when the westerners went home. Most leases are relatively short term affairs and at most a leased unit might be temporarily renumbered to resolve a number conflict. When locomotive is marked for another railroad, it is the result of an outright purchase. Sometimes leases were extended multiple times but still without changing reporting marks. As far as the condition of the leased power, it may be obsolescent but is still a serviceable piece of motive power which, is stipulated in the lease. A junker that spends more time out of service than in, won't earn much rental income for its owner so, older but servicable power usually went out for lease. Another factor in using older and smaller locomotives on leases was the leasing shortlines were too lightly built to employ the more modern and generally larger power, even of the same wheel arrangement. A PRR H-10 makes a good lease engine for a line that can't support an L-1 2-8-2.
Thanks for the correction, both. I do mean "short line". I'm still a bit new on certain items of terminology.
And thank you for the info. Based on what has been said so far, I'm thinking maybe an H10 would be reaching a bit, and kind of overkill for what I'll be doing on my layout. Maybe a Class F or Class G would be a better fit for my mid-30's steam shortline.
Lonehawk, if your shortline is set in the 1930s, I would focus on older power from the 1890s onward to about 1910, most likely with slide valves. The boom in locomotive replacement took off after World War 1 and these older engines were being scrapped everywhere and more likely to wind up on a shortline, since they could be had for scrap prices, making an outright purchase more likely than a lease. PRR F class 2-6-0s, G-3 4-6-0s and H-3 2-8-0s are older, smaller engines ripe for replacement in the 1930s, and could be lettered for your shortline.
Howard Zane's, a member here, book My Life With Model Trains, is full of examples of leased power on his Piermont Division.
There are probably valid economic reasons why one shouldn't paint an empire worth of brass steam engines with non-existant railroad logo. Sometimes imagination needs to trump prototype. It's a hobby, a game, not a museum in our train room.
If you look at his railroad on the various youtube videos, you are not going to say "that Western Maryland loco looks stupid in a fictitious West Virginia town."
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
LonehawkBased on what has been said so far, I'm thinking maybe an H10 would be reaching a bit, and kind of overkill for what I'll be doing on my layout.
As Dave H. mentions above, for example. In 1956 the Pennsy leased a dozen-or-so Santa Fe 2-10-4s for coal and ore traffic on the Sandusky (Ohio) branch.
Scroll down and look at the extention rails attached to the turntable in Columbus needed for the extra length of these locomotives.
http://www.columbusrailroads.com/prr%20santa%20fe.htm
Also in the summer of 1956 the Pennsy leased 9 Reading T-1s to help overcome a locomotive shortage for a few months.
I remember seeing some Bangor and Aroostook GP9s in the Cleveland, Ohio area where PRR would "trade" locomotives during heavy Lake ore and coal traffic and, in turn, loan BAR locomotives for the potato harvest time. The agreement actually lasted into the Conrail era for a bit.
Good Luck, Ed
One aspect of PRR leasing the Santa Fe 2-10-4s that must be mentioned is the expensive noise that resulted when PRR tried to couple a pair of the ATSFs nose to nose. The story I got was, it only happened once!