Got yet another one for my forum friends: Has there been a prototype yard where the yard ladder was in the middle of the yard? I am thinking of designing a yard that way as I have a car repair facility that uses the one side (Using it as an exit for the cars) and the other side is the regular side.
As usual, any assistance the forums can provide would be welcomed.
I don't know about the way you describe, but there certainly have been and are prototype yards where the east and west mains divide and go around the outside of the yard.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Well...a stub-end yard has one yard ladder at one end, a double-ended yard has two yard ladders, one at each end. Not clear what you mean by 'having the ladder in the middle'?
I believe that the old Southern Pacific River Yard in Los Angeles had a yard ladder through what looked like the center of the yard. I'll have to check resources after work to verify my memory.
Ray
Check this link.
It's the the New England Central RR's yard in St Albans Vermont. Coming by the roundhouse from the "right" you'll see two tracks and a crossover, then it splits to three, then four.
Essentially their yard ladder is in the "middle" of the space, with main track on "upper right" edge, and A/D/Main on the "lower left" edge.
The rusty roof building in the middle of the yard is the railcar maintenace facility, which is contracted out. I can't remember who it is that does the work. The train that's leaving to the "upper left" (north) is the CN 323 headed back to Canada. The cars one track to the "upper right" were the CN 324's in bound train.
If you explore the "middle" of the yard, you'll see that some tracks are only accessible from either end and not both. This is due to their use (loading stone, RIP, etc). From memory, and it's been about 8 years since I've worked the yard, but there's six tracks that run the full length of the yard, split between either side with storage and classification in the middle.
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I guess you could say that the Southern Pacific yard in Colton California has the ladders in the middle because if you look to the left or right there are additional yards at the same facility.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0672595,-117.380939,1154m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
Given that there seems to be a little bit of confusion on what I had intended, I whipped up a mock-up of the general idea of what I had in mind (not set in stone of course):
The car shop fits on the left and the main yard would be on the right. (I haven't decided if there will be a ladder on the left as this will be on an end of the layout.)
Can you show us the area and benchwork you're working with?
I don't see that idea being very friendly overall. There's probably a way it can be tweaked to be more efficient.
This is only an idea at this point so any suggestions to tweak would be welcomed. The benchwork that would be used is approximately 51" long and 19" wide. (A piece of plywood sitting in my closet that I don't remember where I got it from.) I need to double check the exact track layout for the car shop yard, but as mentioned, I would like to be able to connect it in such a way that the cars have an easy exit to get back to service. A though would be to have a yard ladder for the car shop and have a single turnout to connect it to the main yard ladder.
FRRYKid Given that there seems to be a little bit of confusion on what I had intended, I whipped up a mock-up of the general idea of what I had in mind (not set in stone of course): The car shop fits on the left and the main yard would be on the right. (I haven't decided if there will be a ladder on the left as this will be on an end of the layout.)
I think your ladder is going to be way too long if you do it like that and the tracks in your yard are going to be spaced really far apart. I would suggest two parallel ladders, one for each direction and joined at the upper and lower ends instead. Try it with track planning software or with some real turnouts or accurately scaled templates first.
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe FRRYKid Given that there seems to be a little bit of confusion on what I had intended, I whipped up a mock-up of the general idea of what I had in mind (not set in stone of course): The car shop fits on the left and the main yard would be on the right. (I haven't decided if there will be a ladder on the left as this will be on an end of the layout.) I think your ladder is going to be way too long if you do it like that and the tracks in your yard are going to be spaced really far apart. I would suggest two parallel ladders, one for each direction and joined at the upper and lower ends instead. Try it with track planning software or with some real turnouts or accurately scaled templates first.
As quoted above, use two parallell ladder tracks, or double slip switches if you don't need the runaround that the parallell tracks provide. Regarding your question about a prototype using this track arrangement, I think it got lost somewhere...
It wasn't uncommon to have an internal ladder in older yards. Most of the ones I've seen were either double slip switches or a series of crossovers. They were internal to a classification yard, NOT seprating two differnt types of yards.
My suggestion is to download John Droege's "Freight Terminals and trains" from Google books (there is also a companion for passenger terminals). It has the state of the art for 1912 in yard design, Lots of drawings descriptions, etc, of the entire design and operation of a prototype yard.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
There are two nice (prototype) things about setting this yard up with two parallel ladder tracks:
You can switch both sets of tracks at the same time.
And it is cheaper. For the real railroad. You, too, probably.
While using a string of double-slips is certainly visually elegant, there are the two negatives above. The prototype would have to have been crowded, or they would have just used the parallel ladder. And it would have to be productive, so as to pay for the extra expense. But if it's that productive, ya probably want to switch both yards at once. Yer old Catch 22.
Another super-negative about using the double-slips is worker safety. If you use the parallel ladders, you can have all the swithstands arrayed between the two tracks; and workers essentially would walk up and down a dirt path. If there are double-slips, they have to do a whole lot of crossing tracks--unsafe. Plus, with the former, the switcher's engineer can easily see the switchman AND the switch indicators.
I would say absolutely do a set of parallel ladders.
Ed
7j43kAnother super-negative about using theis worker safety. If you use the parallel ladders, you can have all the swithstands arrayed between the two tracks; and workers essentially would walk up and down a dirt path. If there are double-slips, they have to do a whole lot of crossing tracks--unsafe. Plus, with the former, the switcher's engineer can easily see the switchman AND the switch indicators.
Ed,The railroads would use double-slips as needed in a terminal area and there would be no danger to the switchman since there are safety rules in place.
A example. Once the movement has stop you can cross the track 15' from the end of the car or locomotive,throw the switch,cross back over the track then give the engineer the needed radio command or hand sign to commence the move.
Never ever give the needed signal or radio command then cross the track at the beginning of the move..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I'm sure they are used when they have to be. Especially as legacy stuff. And people have to deal with them.
I recall a single-slip at the ATSF-SP interchange in West Oakland, CA.
But setting up a yard like we're talking about with a string of double-slips is something I see as distinctly less safe than the other way. Doesn't mean it wouldn't or shouldn't happen anyway, though.
I see the double-slips as a last resort. In this case, the OP could argue he needs the room.
I would very much like to see a prototype example of a string of double-slips used in this fashion. That means hand-thrown. And not a yard throat. Just a simple "double sided" yard.
7j43kI would very much like to see a prototype example of a string of double-slips used in this fashion. That means hand-thrown. And not a yard throat. Just a simple "double sided" yard. Ed
Ed,I doubt if double-slips would be daisy chained in a freight terminal but,a major passenger terminal would have them daisy chained especially on the NEC...
In my experience a double sided freight yard was connected by crossovers.
FRRYKid I would like to be able to connect it in such a way that the cars have an easy exit to get back to service.
I would like to be able to connect it in such a way that the cars have an easy exit to get back to service.
But the amount of moves to shuffle between the two sets of tracks is the same (or more, because there's not an easy runaround), which defeats the purpose.
NittanyLion But the amount of moves to shuffle between the two sets of tracks is the same (or more, because there's not an easy runaround), which defeats the purpose.
From the OP:
"I have a car repair facility that uses the one side (Using it as an exit for the cars) and the other side is the regular side."
I don't see why he needs to shuffle between the two sets of tracks. One is a car shop. One is a switching yard. They are only slightly related.
7j43k NittanyLion But the amount of moves to shuffle between the two sets of tracks is the same (or more, because there's not an easy runaround), which defeats the purpose. From the OP: "I have a car repair facility that uses the one side (Using it as an exit for the cars) and the other side is the regular side." I don't see why he needs to shuffle between the two sets of tracks. One is a car shop. One is a switching yard. They are only slightly related. Ed
The "put them back in service" part implies an advantage to the connection
NittanyLion 7j43k NittanyLion But the amount of moves to shuffle between the two sets of tracks is the same (or more, because there's not an easy runaround), which defeats the purpose. From the OP: "I have a car repair facility that uses the one side (Using it as an exit for the cars) and the other side is the regular side." I don't see why he needs to shuffle between the two sets of tracks. One is a car shop. One is a switching yard. They are only slightly related. Ed The "put them back in service" part implies an advantage to the connection
True enough but the majority of the car repair shops is on one end of the yard or off to the side by its self away from the yard ladder and classication tracks. There may a RIP track off the lead or hump but,that's for minor repairs.