January 1976 ORER had none of the cars of interest.
April 1980 had 39911-39913.
I think the Railgoat date is an error.
And, yes, there were no USAX or USNX cars showing in 1976.
Ed
7j43kWhat I do assert is that DODX 33918 NEVER had plain bearings. Funny looking truck or not.
I don't think that I actually said that the car had plain bearings, just that the truck appeared to have converted plain bearing castings.
Given that the outer plain bearings were removable from the side frames (and not cast in place), and that the center axle bearing appears to have a cast in place box. I submit that the original truck casting may have been modified (meaning the drain hole was cast into the bottom of the box of the center of the truck by Buckeye) (the water that will collect in there has to have a way out) instead of being built as a plain bearing then drilled out. "The government does always go with the lowest bidder."
Anyway, next time I get the chance I will note build date and PM dates (the car I saw had not been repainted and had stencils showing the military planned maintenance system (stenciled when maintenance completed) going back several many years.
Does a similar car appear under possibly a USNX or USAX reporting mark prior to 1986?
Edit: nope, change over to DODX should have been completed by 1975.
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/other_cars/dodx_cars/dodx/dodx.htm
This website says that 39911 was built in 1953.
I dont think that 39912-917 are that old, and it is possible that I saw 917 or some car from this group.
There is a photo of 39913 in 1983 on RR-fallen flags.
That having been said.
They all appear to have identical (or nearly so) trucks.
BMMECNYC 7j43k DODX 39918, the car in the photo that was supplied as an example, was delivered after 1986. Ed, Look at this photo. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3630062 In the photo some sort of repairs or inspections were done 7-86 (seeupper left hand corner) Its sister car 39919 has dates going back earlier than that. They are indentical cars, built for identical purpose. The casting date on the right hand side of the truck frame says 8-87. Why does the center wheelset (on all cars in this series) appear to have a plain bearing box?
7j43k DODX 39918, the car in the photo that was supplied as an example, was delivered after 1986.
Ed,
Look at this photo.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3630062
In the photo some sort of repairs or inspections were done 7-86 (seeupper left hand corner)
Its sister car 39919 has dates going back earlier than that. They are indentical cars, built for identical purpose.
The casting date on the right hand side of the truck frame says 8-87.
Why does the center wheelset (on all cars in this series) appear to have a plain bearing box?
DODX 39918 and 39919 are not in the October 1986 ORER (DODX 39911 through 39917 are.). The two cars do appear in the October 1990 ORER. Hence my statement. I suppose DOD could have held them back after receipt; thus they would have had them, but they would not show in the ORER. But then the would not have been available for interchange. Which was kind of where we started.
Regrding the center "bearing bump":
One possible reason for the bump is that it was on the pattern that was chosen for the truck castings. Having the bump does not demand having plain bearings, as the photos demonstrate. Perhaps the choice was expedient. Anyway, if this were the case, the trucks would have always been roller bearing.
Another possibility is that the trucks were remanufactured from plain bearing trucks. Other Ed has shown two pictures of plain bearing Buckeye trucks, and it's not hard to imagine changeing out the bearings. In this case, the "bump" would also stay; while the bumps on the outer axles would disappear. And one would get a truck similar to the ones on DODX 39918. Except for one difference. You will see in Ed's photos that all the bearing boxes have drain holes. I have examined photos of this batch of cars on rrpicturearchive--no drain holes. And there's no way they would have plugged them. So, it's possible (if you ignore the drain hole problem) that these cars ALWAYS had these remanufactured trucks.
So, that's the two ways I can think of for these cars to have received these trucks.
What I do assert is that DODX 33918 NEVER had plain bearings. Funny looking truck or not.
gmpullman BMMECNYC Closerer view: Neat! Here's a sad look at what's left of Columbus Castings, AKA Buckeye Steel Castings: http://abandonedonline.net/locations/industry/buckeye-steel-castings/ They had a pretty rocky go of it the past few years. Supposedly, demolition is under way. Regards, Ed
BMMECNYC Closerer view:
Neat!
Here's a sad look at what's left of Columbus Castings, AKA Buckeye Steel Castings:
http://abandonedonline.net/locations/industry/buckeye-steel-castings/
They had a pretty rocky go of it the past few years. Supposedly, demolition is under way.
Regards, Ed
I was just there in June. Got photos of the roundhouse at the nearby CSX yard and of all the Buckeye trucks that were around the area (two or three sets all painted up on display), and a couple of the buildings (once I realized what I was looking at, it took a moment).
gmpullman Handy CSX interchange refence: https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/library/files/customers/safety-and-security/tank-cars/aar-rule-90/ Certain truck sideframes and wheels shown as specifically banned. Ed
Handy CSX interchange refence:
https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/library/files/customers/safety-and-security/tank-cars/aar-rule-90/
Certain truck sideframes and wheels shown as specifically banned.
Im guessing Rule 90 n (equipped with on board detectors) is how they can use the center casting design.
B-800 is not on the list (which is what I think I saw in the photo of the truck side frame).
7j43kDODX 39918, the car in the photo that was supplied as an example, was delivered after 1986.
In the photo there is a stencil that says PM (then three letters washed out) below it says 7-86 (see upper left hand corner).
Its sister car 39919 has dates going back earlier than that. They are indentical cars, built for identical purpose(s). I specifically remember looking at the stenciled PM markings and thinking the cars were getting close to the 40 or 50 year mark.
Why does the center wheelset (on all trucks of all cars in this series) appear to have a converted plain bearing box?
In the linked photo it appears that the center section is bolted? to the outer two sections.
Next time I get the chance I will note the earliest date painted on the car (and the cast in date on the trucks). I would speculate that these are not the original truck for the flat car.
Firelock76Thanks! I believe that's exactly who it was.
.
And I will bet that will be the only time I know the answer for a question about a prototype railroad!
Glad I could help.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
BMMECNYC rogerhensley Cars with converted friction to roller bearing side-frames were banned from interchange on 1/1/95. There are some DODX heavy duty flats (12 axle) that retain their converted solid journal bearing trucks to this day.
rogerhensley Cars with converted friction to roller bearing side-frames were banned from interchange on 1/1/95.
There are some DODX heavy duty flats (12 axle) that retain their converted solid journal bearing trucks to this day.
DODX 39918, the car in the photo that was supplied as an example, was delivered after 1986. There is no way that car ever had plain bearings in its trucks. And therefore, the bearings were never converted to roller bearings. They were always roller bearings.
BMMECNYCCloserer view:
gmpullmanHere's a closer view of the trucks under the DODX 39918: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/usa/dodx39918adk.jpg
Closerer view:
7j43k just how did they convert the outer axles?
I'm of the opinion that the shop probably removed the non-integral journal boxes and applied the necessary adapters to accept the roller bearing wheelset. The center axle journal box is cast integral with the carrier so was modified (see procedure below).
Here's a closer view of the trucks under the DODX 39918:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/usa/dodx39918adk.jpg
These photo show that on some later-design Buckeye sideframes, the journal box could be removed from the side frames.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/usa/dodx36537ajc.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/usa/dodx38597jca.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/fan-t/5323750190/in/album-72157624046164043/
I say "some" because I believe the designs of the truck evolved over the years. In 1944 the Buckeye tender trucks under this particular Berkshire were cast with integral journal boxes and clasp brake assemblies.
You can see the original journal box wall section. The protruding part of the box has been milled off.
Below are instructions for making the conversion yourself, should the need ever arise.
7j43kOr is someone claiming that the trucks originally had plain bearings on the center axle and roller bearings on the outer?
If you were refering to me, I never made that claim...
Happy Railroading,
I found this publication online:
https://www.railinc.com/rportal/alf_docs/MARK/RailroadsGuide.pdf
If that DOD flat is riding on trucks converted from plain bearings, just how did they convert the outer axles?
Or is someone claiming that the trucks originally had plain bearings on the center axle and roller bearings on the outer?
I suspect most restrictions preventing use in interchange service are actually established by the AAR rather than the government, which is why restricted cars can still be used on the owning railroad. The ban is not absolute, but before such a car can go off-line the receiving road has to agree to handle it, and that is unlikely to happen except in very special circumstances.
The last plain bearing car I saw in regular operation was an air-dump on CPR, back in 2012. Others in worktrain use had been converted to roller bearings but somehow this one had escaped. The next year (2013) a pair of CN 40' boxcars renumbered for OCS service appeared in the local yard, complete with high brake wheel and running boards on the roof (but roller bearings). Quite a blast from the past!
BMMECNYCTypo on my part. Changed to converted plain bearing journal box.
...and a slight misreading on my part
We're on the same page now!
gmpullman BMMECNYC Middle axle of each truck retains the plain bearing box. Those are actually roller bearing modified journal boxes. These were pretty common in the Sixties. The railroad would remove the jouirnal cover and bore a large hole where the oil well was so water wouldn't collect in there. Regards, Ed
BMMECNYC Middle axle of each truck retains the plain bearing box.
Those are actually roller bearing modified journal boxes. These were pretty common in the Sixties. The railroad would remove the jouirnal cover and bore a large hole where the oil well was so water wouldn't collect in there.
Typo on my part. Changed to converted plain bearing journal box.
BMMECNYCMiddle axle of each truck retains the plain bearing box.
Those are actually roller bearing modified journal boxes. These were pretty common in the Sixties. The railroad would remove the journal cover and bore a large hole where the oil well was so water wouldn't collect in there.
Tough to find an example. Scroll down to fourth from last photo here:
http://www.angelfire.com/il/CNW/caboose.html
Rapido made some 70 ton examples in HO but they're hard to find. I hope Jason reruns them soon!
https://rapidotrains.com/ho-scale-freight-car-trucks/#barb3
7j43k BMMECNYC There are some DODX heavy duty flats (12 axle) that retain their converted solid journal bearing trucks to this day. But are they in interchange? Ed
BMMECNYC There are some DODX heavy duty flats (12 axle) that retain their converted solid journal bearing trucks to this day.
But are they in interchange?
Edit
Middle axle of each truck retains the converted plain bearing box. All others have normal roller bearings. DODX 39912(-19). And yes they are interchange, considering they have been photographed on P&W, NS and CSX. Im guessing there is some sort of exception for these cars.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1095073
rogerhensleyCars with converted friction to roller bearing side-frames were banned from interchange on 1/1/95.
Wood underframes have a structure primarily made of wood.
Composite underframes have a structure that is made of both wood and steel.
Unless someone can turn up some sort of official declaration (ICC, and all that), it's still pretty open about truss rods, and any declaration against by officialdom.
I would propose that truss rods may have become "inappropriate" for car design, not forbidden. In that case, they disappeared because no one wanted to build cars using them.
rrinker ....Interesting tidbit I just picked up - truss rods themnselves were never specifically outlawed. It was wood frame cars that were outlawed, and since steel cars don't need truss rods, they sort of disappeared on their own....
Between 1922 and 1926, the Southern Railway took delivery of almost 15,000 SU class boxcars. These had truss rods and steel underframes....
Wood-framed cars, including those with steel-girthed centre sills, were banned from interchange on January 1st, 1940. Truss rods were still allowed on composite underframes.
On January 1st, 1952, cars with composite underframes were banned from interchange.
The definition of "composite underframe" is unclear to me - since the wood-framed cars were covered in the 1940 ban, does composite refer to steel-framed cars with truss rods? I can't see why it should, as it's unlikely that the steel frame would be negatively affected by the truss rods. The lack of clarity does seem to suggest, though, that truss rods may have been banned from interchange by that latter edict.The Southern's SUs began to be scrapped after WWII, but some of them went to the Atlantic & Danville and the Lancaster and Chester. There are photos of the latter two in Ted Culotta's Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual - Vol. 1, both taken in 1952, which makes me wonder if the ban prompted photographers to "get 'em while ya can".The Monon had 500 similar cars, built in 1923, and the Mobile & Ohio (under Southern control at the time) had at least 1400 40' versions of the same car, 500 of which were originally automobile boxcars.
Wayne
SeeYou190 United States Sugar in Florida still has some equipment with older "friction" trucks. It all operates on private rail. The primary load is bringing sugar cane in from the field to the mills. This might be what you are talking about. . -Kevin .
United States Sugar in Florida still has some equipment with older "friction" trucks. It all operates on private rail. The primary load is bringing sugar cane in from the field to the mills. This might be what you are talking about.
Thanks! I believe that's exactly who it was.
7j43k If a railroad doesn't interchange a car, it can run it any way it wants. That includes truss rods, wood beam trucks, no air brakes at all. It's when it is interchanged that rules start applying. Ed
If a railroad doesn't interchange a car, it can run it any way it wants. That includes truss rods, wood beam trucks, no air brakes at all. It's when it is interchanged that rules start applying.
Interesting tidbit I just picked up - truss rods themnselves were never specifically outlawed. It was wood frame cars that were outlawed, and since steel cars don't need truss rods, they sort of disappeared on their own. This is in Tony Koester's new book, Modeling the Transition Era.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Several years ago "Trains" ran an atricle about a short-line railroad in Florida that was still using hopper cars with friction bearings. This was an agricultural/industrial 'road that did not interchange with any other railroad at all. The hopper contents went straight from the loading area to the processing area several miles, don't remember how many, and no further.
Sorry, but I don't remember the name of the railroad.
http://mrr.trains.com/~/media/import/files/pdf/4/c/c/mr_pi_5-06_freightcartrucks.ashx
"Roller-bearing trucks have been around since the turn of the 20th century - began to see common use in the 1930s on passenger cars. - weren’t widely used on freight equipment until the late 1950s and 1960s. - New cars built after 1966 were required to have rollerbearing trucks - solid-bearing trucks were banned from interchange service after 1980." Found a thread on another Forum that says in a later reprint "1980" changed to "1990"
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I think this is the answer
http://modelingthesp.com/Operations/ARA-AAR_Rules_by_Year.html
ARA-AAR Interchange Rules by Year
Just for informational purposes, this comes off another list. It might shed some light on practices as they apply to modeling.
Ken Harrison
1972 "Roller bearings required for all cars w/6-1/2x11 journals"
1974 "Cars w/axle load >55,000 lbs must have roller bearings"
1991 "Plain-brg trucks banned from interchange"
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.