Texas is in the Midwest, not the Southwest? I don't think so. The Midwest is north of The South, east of the Rocky Mountain West, and west of the Appalachians. If a state was in the Confederacy, it's not in the Midwest. If you want to lump OK and Texas in with the southern states, I can see that. (Although Oklahoma was still "The Indian Territory" during the Civil War so couldn't secede since it wasn't a state.)
Checklist to determine if your state is in the Southwest
1. Do you all say "y'all" a lot?
2. Are a lot of the placenames around your area Spanish?
3. Does every restaurant table have Tabasco sauce bottles on it?
4. Does your state grow cotton?
5. Does your state still recognize Bob Wills as The King?
If the answers are "yes", then you're in the Southwest, Pardner!!
The area he is modeling the soil is the color of terra cotta and so is any body of water. Even a still pond is red. The river between Oklahoma and Texas is called the Red River. The terrain is rolling hills to plains, scrubby little trees, a lot of one story wood and metal buildings.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
As far as the scenery, keep in mind there is a difference in how eastern Oklahoma looks compared to Western Oklahoma. There is a transition from the green attributed to Gulf of Mexico moisture to a more brown and arid landscape as you move west. Eastern Oklahoma can be hilly since its close to the Ozarks but the state flattens out to a pancake in the west.
A big difference difference between southern states and northern states is the underlying earth tone tends to be red clay based in the south as oppossed to gray/brown in the north, so OK would have reddish tones. Tree cover is more sparce in the west, so gulleys would be more exposed with evidence of washouts and monsoonal flooding, whereas more easterly locations would have thicker woods and forests concealing the natural landscape...a more "Dixie" feel to it.
- Douglas
Bringing the discussion back around to the original questions.
I would not model a grain elevator. In Oklahoma a grain elevator would be shipping grain out and would be using predominately ATSF boxcars, virtually 100% plain 40 ft cars with a 6 ft door, and there would be no real spotting of cars, they would shove a cut of cars past the spout an then the elevator would move them past loading them, then the railroad would pull the loaded cars. Not much to it.
I would instead model a feed dealer, a feed mill. They would get inbound grain so there could be a variety of road names depending on where the grain or inbound feed was sourced from. And since there would be different commodities inbound (bulk feed, bagged feed, bags, fedd additives, etc) there could be different spots for different cars at different doors. They could get in liquid feed components too for a tank car spot.
If you put in a dock they could get in flatcar loads of implements, farm machinery or tractors.
If that doesn't float your boat then a furniture and appliance dealer warehouse or a grocery supply warehouse. Both of them would get cars from many different places and many different roads in different type boxcars. If you need a second industry a team track is always good or for something more colorful, a beverage or beer distributor to get colorful reefers.
Hey, this could be a real debate about nothing.
So I'll chip in.
After living in the midwest nearly all of my life, I'd say OK is definitely in the South but maybe not that far West.
No cowboy hats and cowboy boots in Indiana, but they are a plenty in OK and Texas. Plenty of southern red clay in Oklahoma. None in Iowa. More wheat than corn and soybeans. More cattle ranches than the midwest and barren landscape greened up by center pivot irrigation.
Maybe its best said that OK is in the "Great Plains". Its more of a transition from the true midwest to the true southwest, with plenty of twang in the syntax and 95 degree days to let you know you're not in Ohio. Eastern half somewhat green, western half naturally more brown and barren.
Don’t confuse the poor guy. Oklahoma is not the south west. It is mid west farm belt, Bible belt, tornado alley. Texas is also considered mid west by many people except for the west Texas area around Pecos or El Paso. The southwest states are Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada and southern California. They are far different geologically and geographically as well as culturally and climate wise. Nothing grows in the real southwest without irrigation. It is mostly desert or mountains and lots of dry lakes. It is not fertile farm land like the Midwest. It is lots of barren rock, cactus or chaparral. If the guy wants to make the scenery realistic he wants Midwest scenery, not southwest. He wants wheat, hay and corn, not cactus and chili peppers. He wants wooden structures not adobe or stucco. He wants wood shingle roofs not Spanish tile.
Keep in mind no US railroad goes everywhere, so the only way to ship goods around the nation is to interchange cars with other railroads. (That would be even more true in the 1950's, before the "merger era" of the 1960's.)
Unless you're modelling say an iron ore railroad, where 24' ore cars go back and forth from the mines to the Great Lakes ore docks, it would be very unusual to see a train where all the cars are from that particular railroad...in fact, in many cases, the majority of cars in a train (especially a mainline freight) would be foreign road cars.
Stu,
Thank you for the link. Very nice. I am, at least for now, off the hook for building an orange packing module, as one of my fellow local friends is already on the job. It, too, is a single switch off the main line (2' x 4'). It's been in a setup, already; though the packing shed still has to be built. He's got a prototype he's following; I've seen pictures but I can't recall the location. Anyway, I'll be switching there, for the nonce.
If you are interested in Free-mo, I recommend joining THAT Yahoo group, also:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Free-mo/conversations/messages
Ed
wjstix Although a railroad would try when possible to provide a shipper with one of their freight cars - especially if the car will be sent to a business also on that railroad - in general, it would be incredibly rare to see just one railroad's cars on trains. Santa Fe had a lot of cars, but for a model railroad I'd say only 50% at most should be ATSF cars. They would have cars from neighboring railroads, but also from railroads far away. In the 1950's most US manufacturing was still in the East and Midwest, so cars from the Pennsylvania, New York Central, Milwaukee Road, etc. would be pretty common on the ATSF.
Although a railroad would try when possible to provide a shipper with one of their freight cars - especially if the car will be sent to a business also on that railroad - in general, it would be incredibly rare to see just one railroad's cars on trains. Santa Fe had a lot of cars, but for a model railroad I'd say only 50% at most should be ATSF cars. They would have cars from neighboring railroads, but also from railroads far away. In the 1950's most US manufacturing was still in the East and Midwest, so cars from the Pennsylvania, New York Central, Milwaukee Road, etc. would be pretty common on the ATSF.
Thanks, I would love to have one or two items of DRGW equipment at least, I love their branding!
wjstix BTW most people would consider Oklahoma to be in the Southwest (along with Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and (perhaps) California), not the Midwest. It's not clearly defined, but I think for most folks the Midwest would be east of a line drawn from North Dakota to Kansas, then north of a line drawn from Kansas to Ohio.
BTW most people would consider Oklahoma to be in the Southwest (along with Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and (perhaps) California), not the Midwest. It's not clearly defined, but I think for most folks the Midwest would be east of a line drawn from North Dakota to Kansas, then north of a line drawn from Kansas to Ohio.
Thanks for setting me straight, I have to admit I did not know that. Apologies to any Oklahoma residents who I may have inadvertantly offended ;)
Many thanks Cuyama. You are right, it seems that Peco now make a #8 turnout. It hasnt made it my local store yet, but I will look at ordering online.
atsf_britThe only concern is that the selection of code 83 rail that is readily available in the UK is somewhat limited. Basically, Peco produce lengths of flexi-track, a medium left hand switch, a medium right hand switch and a wye switch as far as I know
The PECO Code 83 line is much broader than that and has been expanding.
Best of luck with your project.
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(Deleting duplicate post)
Many thanks for your help Ed.
I have long liked the idea of building modular layouts, so being introduced to the Free-mo standard is really interesting. The only concern is that the selection of code 83 rail that is readily available in the UK is somewhat limited. Basically, Peco produce lengths of flexi-track, a medium left hand switch, a medium right hand switch and a wye switch as far as I know. I am not too sure of the equivalent Atlas numbers. I have personally never seen Atlas, Micro Engineering etc track available here.
Other ranges have much more choice, but they are either code 100 or code 75 rail with 4mm scale ties that do look different to the 3.5mm ties on the code 83. It may be worth looking at ranges from mainland Europe. Anyway, I digress, so we will have to see what can be done.
My first step will be to get something running, but I will hopefully do so in a way that will allow me to adopt the standard subsequently.
In any case, I will try to post progress updates as and when appropriate.
You mentioned your vision of southern California. I thought this page and one or two that are linked from it may be of interest...
http://www.craigsrailroadpages.com/atsf/index.htm
Thanks again, and best regards, Stu
I like your idea of doing a simple and straightforward "layout" as a start. You could combine this little one with a following more complex setup. I urge you to consider doing this project as a Free-mo or fremo module (as appropriate to your location and inclinations). Then you can take it out to play with others. In fact, if you were to bring a nice little Kildare module to one of our setups, I'm sure we could find room. It is a long trip, however.
I just did a Google maps visit to Kildare. From overhead, you can see that the siding has been removed. But if you go down onto the road and look towards the elvator, you can still see the old siding track. You can also see what's there now. A useful start, I think.
If you're going to model Santa Fe, I recommend joining the Santa Fe Yahoo group:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ATSF/conversations/messages
and also the historical society:
https://sfrhms.org
I'm not real knowledgeable on those "grain terms", but they aren't state secrets. I'm sure you'll puzzle it out.
I can't speak for the Santa Fe in particular, but it's my impression that back in "zebra stripe" days, grain railroads assembled every 40' boxcar they could from wherever they could. I am quite sure foreign roads showed up on ATSF during the rush.
I've got a zebra striped ATSF GP9, myself. I envision it switching reefers at orange sheds in Southern California. A lovely vision, I do say.
Hi everybody,Very new to the forum and the hobby, so I apologise if this thread is in the wrong place, or these seem like silly questions!I am currently planning what I hope will become my first ever layout to progress to any kind of completion. I am working on a very simple micro layout set in Oklahoma in the late 1950s.The reason for this is that I have built up a good selection of 'zebra stripe' ATSF locomotives, and several 40ft ATST box cars (plus one covered hopper that I read may have just been introduced at the time). I have also built one of Walthers excellent wooden grain elevator kits, so the location and period have kind of been decided for me!As my forum name may imply, I am a Brit living in the UK, so availability of US models is a bit limited.As I am limited in space to a shelf switcher (which I prefer in any case), I was thinking of starting with a very simple single turnout layout similar to Kildare, Ok as can be found in the following ATSF CLIC book...http://old.atsfrr.org/Members/Clic/So4-Enid92.pdfI know this seems limited in scope, but I really want to learn some basic skilols, like the idea of prototypical operation and actually dont have a lot of time for more involved operating sessions! I would be tempted to build something more complex (such as being inspired by Florence, Ks or Newkirk, Ok in the same book) as a second layout once I have learned a few skills.I may put an overpass at the right hand end with a hidden traverser to provide run round and operational interest. Siding length is likely to be limited to the 3 spots in the book.So, questions...I assume your bog standard grain elevator (complete with hose to load cars) is a 'spout' spot?I know roughly what an 'auger' spot is, but is this appropriate for the late 50's?What is a 'riser' spot? From the few pictures I have seen it looks like another elevator, but with different equipment.Last, but not least, although my current stock is all ATSF, would other road names appear too? I figured there may be names from either end of the ATSF (such as Missouri Pactific), but not from parallel roads (such as UP) which I assume would be competitors?I would really welcome any thoughts or advice!Stu