SeeYou190I have always wondered this myself. To me the fire barrles just seem silly.
If there are no barrels you have 0% chance of putting out the fire . You will also notice that there are fire extinguishers in buildings too. Think they are silly?
If a cinder pops outof a locmotive and falls,
Actually most fires are from sticking brakes or handbrakes set or from track work (welders, rail grinding, rail saws, etc.
what are the chances is will fall near a barrel?
Well if the barrels are on the bridge and the fire is on the bridge that pretty well puts the fire near the barrel doesn't it?
How do you move a barrel to the fire, it weighs over 500 pounds? There are not enough crew members to make a bucket brigade.
There is a thing called a "bucket" it has a solid bottom and walls and a handle. You dip it in the barrel, fill it with water and then carry it to the fire.
If there is a fire, how much good does 60 gallons of water do? How long to you need to stop a train and wait to see smoke from a smoldering cinder before it ignites?
All fires start small. The barrels are there to put out one smoldering tie. Once several bents are involved there isn't enough water that even multiple fire engines could put it out. The idea is to stop it from getting it to the point of an actual flaming fire.
I just never understood. . Is there any actual evidence that these barrels ever prevented a fire?
I know that MofW and trains have found and extinguished hundreds of tie fires over the years. Many have been put out with a couple gallon sprayers and water coolers. If they can put out a tie fire with less than 5 gallons of water, I would imagine that 60 gallons ought to do the same.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
In 1894 Alabama there were trestles burned and dynamited (apparently by disgruntled local miners) on several railroads. Some of the trestles were saved by train crews who discovered the fires in time. Does not say if fire barrels were used.
In one case a watchman. with help, extinguished fires on a trestle, using water from fire barrels. They trestle was damaged but not destroyed. Seven bents were burned. Five on one end, two on the other.
https://books.google.com/books?id=IIeTBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA246&lpg=PA246&dq=trestle+fires+extinguished+fire+barrels&source=bl&ots=NON5ojEzUn&sig=IXXMpHouwbEwsDDxtO0as2oFeF0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjz7-uQ0uvUAhWhhlQKHVWcCj0Q6AEIQDAE#v=onepage&q=trestle%20fires%20extinguished%20fire%20barrels&f=false
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
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SeeYou190 I have always wondered this myself. To me the fire barrles just seem silly. . If a cinder pops outof a locmotive and falls, what are the chances is will fall near a barrel? How do you move a barrel to the fire, it weighs over 500 pounds? There are not enough crew members to make a bucket brigade. If there is a fire, how much good does 60 gallons of water do? How long to you need to stop a train and wait to see smoke from a smoldering cinder before it ignites? . I just never understood. . Is there any actual evidence that these barrels ever prevented a fire? . -Kevin .
I have always wondered this myself. To me the fire barrles just seem silly.
.
If a cinder pops outof a locmotive and falls, what are the chances is will fall near a barrel? How do you move a barrel to the fire, it weighs over 500 pounds? There are not enough crew members to make a bucket brigade. If there is a fire, how much good does 60 gallons of water do? How long to you need to stop a train and wait to see smoke from a smoldering cinder before it ignites?
I just never understood.
Is there any actual evidence that these barrels ever prevented a fire?
-Kevin
I don't know about any stories when they prevented a fire but I've read more than one instance in which they didn't and the trestle was destroyed by fire. As was pointed out, a cinder wouldn't likely ignite a raging fire in a short amount of time so there would be a window of opportunity to put the fire out before it consumed the trestle. I could see the buckets from the barrel pouring enough water on a small fire to put it out before it became an inferno. The key of course would be to spot the fire early on. That's what prompted my question. If the next train isn't due for several hours, it might be too late to take effective action. The barrels would provide a little extra protection but some luck would be needed as well. If nothing else, they make for an interesting detail and on our model railroads will unlikely be needed.
Thank You.
As a counterpoint, what do you do if you're a trackwalker or you're on a speeder and find a small fire smoldering on a trestle? And there's no water barrel?
I do also wonder how often the barrels were used. Successfully.
And it's not just cinders that could start fires. There's also debris from hotboxes.
If you do an image search for wood railroad trestles, you'll see that water barrels and/or refuges are absent more than present.
For example, here's a shot with seemingly random spaced refuges, none with water barrels:
I suspect, unless you're modeling an actual prototype, you can leave either off, or not, as you choose.
Ed
Living the dream.
Generally, bridges AND TRESTLES over 100' long have refuges added if such a space is not naturally provided by the structure. Most truss bridges are wide enough that there is room for a walkway parallel to the tracks that could serve that purpose. For a trestle (or a deck girder), that's those little projecting decks spaced along the trestle. They may or may not have water barrels, depending on a particular railroad's policy.
I think the times that a train stopped after crossing a trestle so that the rear crew could patrol for "cinders" would be somewhere near none. Same for stationing a guy at a trestle to do the same.
Most fires on a trestle would smolder for quite awhile before catching. Conceivable, the small cost of keeping filled water barrels would be offset by having them available when a fire was spotted.
Don't forget that, besides the trains, track crews patrolled the trackage. And they didn't always have a big tank of water behind the engine that could be used if there WASN'T a fire barrel.
I think the water barrels were viewed as cheap insurance.
And don't forget, just because there were refuges along a trestle doesn't mean there were water barrels.
Platforms with fire barrels seem to be standard on wooden trestles. It is understandable why a railroad would want to guard against losing one to a fire. Of course these won't help much if no one is around when the fire starts. In the steam era days would the train stop after clearing the trestle so the rear brakeman could inspect it to make sure no hot cinders had fallen on the trestle. Did the railroads have someone stationed at the trestle at all times to watch for fires? I have a wooden trestle on my branchline which sees three trains per day in each direction. Anyone stationed at that trestle would be as about as busy as the Maytag repairman.