Would coal cars all have the same roadname as the railroad its on in the early to mid 1960s? Or would they be more predominately one railroad, but mixed with others? And would they foreign cars be orders to be shipped to distant destinations?As a bonus question, how likely were local coal dealers to still be around at this time?
restoratorhow likely were local coal dealers to still be around at this time?
Russell
My grandmother in Saginaw MI had only just converted from coal to oil/gas(?) about then. And I doubt she was the last person to have coal delivered in that area.
Ed
Generally the railroad serving a coal mine would use their own hoppers. There were exceptions naturally. The Western Maryland regularly had a group of New Haven hoppers run down to the coal fields in WV. These cars were for NH use (mostly) in their steamers. There were also hoppers for private companies dedicated to steel mills, etc.
I grew up NE of Baltimore in the mid 1950's and '60's and remember seeing a local lumber/fuel/feed company with a couple sidings, one of which was an active coal trestle. I remember seeing Reading hoppers there so I assume they were Anthracite loads. I remember seeing different sizes/grades of coal under the trestle during that time. I had an Uncle who still used coal for heat in his house during that time and I can remember seeing the coal delivery trucks quite often running around.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
Bressler and Son Coal Co. in Saginaw, MI was in business until about 1978 or '79. A house across the street from them was still burning coal in the mid '70s. The owner of the house would haul the coal in a wheel barrow. He would stop each wheel barrow load on the truck scale to be weighed before pushing it across the street.
I lived in Knoxville, TN in the early 60s and I can recall at least five coal dealers that received coal by rail. When we moved to Chattanooga, TN in 1964 I recall three coal dealers but they didn't last long. I moved back to Knoxville in 1983 and there was one retail coal dealer.
As far as the home verses foreign car mix, if the railroad is an originator of coal traffic most of what you will see will be home road road cars. One thing to keep in mind that the purchaser may have have contracts with an offline supplier. Especially business that purchased coal for heating or boilers might make volume purchases from a supplier that loads on another railroad.
Charlie
A couple miles north of Baltimore, my elementary school heated with coal when I was there until 1963.
On a local forum I discovered a thread from people who still heat with coal. Coal stoves are still readily available as is coal.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
restoratorWould coal cars all have the same roadname as the railroad its on in the early to mid 1960s?
No..A mine on the (say) Southern may have the best ton price so,a local coal dealer,steel mill,coke plant etc would buy their coal from that mine under long term contract. OTOH the serving railroad may not have a mine on its line so,the needed coal comes through interchange.
Railroads usually load their hoppers first before considering loading a foreign road hopper.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
FWIW, I shot a single N&W coal hopper in Oakland CA back around 1975, or so. A LONG way from home.
Hanging around B&O trackside in Brunswick, MD, in the late 50s early 60s, trains between Washington/Baltimore and Cumberland. Many coal trains. I saw mostly B&O cars, but also plenty of C&O cars. Other roads as well, N&W certainly, but mostly B&O.
Thanks for the help everyone. That's pretty much what I thought. I need to eventually aquire a pretty good size fleet of home road cars.
restorator As a bonus question, how likely were local coal dealers to still be around at this time?
As a bonus question, how likely were local coal dealers to still be around at this time?
Wow. So it really IS an SS.
Once upon a time, there was an SS that took tourists from DC to Mount Vernon. It had a triple expansion engine, and it was available for viewing. Which I tended to do.
Interactive Anthracite coal dealer locater map. Shows city and state.
http://readinganthracite.com/dealer-directory/
Even found a some coal dealers in California
http://www.thomasnet.com/northern-california/coal-15591001-1.html
http://www.thomasnet.com/southern-california/coal-15591001-1.html
Coal dealers in Wisconsin
http://www.thomasnet.com/wisconsin/coal-15591001-1.html
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
This is the begining stages of a coal dock for a local dealer I am working on. It sounds like this should be fine for this era. I think I may add some heating oil/kerosene storage tanks too.
The dock/dump will be cut into the side of a low hill when complete. I still have to finish some more weathering and a few maor layers of coal as well as the driveway for this spot.
Even after residential heating with coal was something of a rarity in the mid to late 1960s, there were still plenty of schools, hospitals, and large government institutions that were heated and sometimes even powered by coal for another decade or two. I can remember seeing the Illinois Central bringing in loads of coal to the University of Wisconsin power plant in the middle 1970s for example.
Dave Nelson
I once saw a coal train on the SP south of San Jose CA. The locos, every car and the caboose were Rio Grande. This was before I had a drivers license so it was mid 1960's or earlier.
dknelsonEven after residential heating with coal was something of a rarity in the mid to late 1960s, there were still plenty of schools, hospitals, and large government institutions that were heated and sometimes even powered by coal for another decade or two....
Five or six years ago, I was driving home after visiting friends in Ohio and Pennsylvania. It was in October, on a nice, sunny, but crisp day. I was likely on Rte. 119 or 219, and as I came over a hill and into a small town, the smell of coal smoke was in the air. I rolled down the windows, and took it in, memories of my childhood filling my head. Almost everyone in my hometown heated with coal, and most of the scores of industries used it, too, especially the steel mills and railroads.I'm sure, if any locals were watching, that they must have thought, "Look at that crazy Ca-knucklehead, drivin' with his windows open and a big goofy smile on his face.".
It's amazing how evocative a scent can be.
Wayne
dknelson Even after residential heating with coal was something of a rarity in the mid to late 1960s, there were still plenty of schools, hospitals, and large government institutions that were heated and sometimes even powered by coal for another decade or two. I can remember seeing the Illinois Central bringing in loads of coal to the University of Wisconsin power plant in the middle 1970s for example. Dave Nelson
Carnegie Mellon and the University of Pittsburgh share a steam plant that got coal deliveries up until around 2010, when they switched to gas. Ate four or five hoppers a week.
My grandparents house had coal heat up until around that point too, when they got free gas as part of the deal on the rights to the gas on their farm. Coal smoke, ultra-hot incandescent bulbs, and crisp cold air is the smell of Christmas to me.
Your question relates to the early 1960's, so a timeline is in order, to provide context.
I was born in Akron, Ohio in 1946. At that time, most houses in my neighborhood were heated with coal, but this changed rapidly in the 1950's, and by about 1960, almost all had converted to natural gas. A lot of coal was still being shipped for large industrial users, however. Most of the hoppers we saw were involved in traffic between the Lake Erie ports and the steel mills of the Ohio River Valley and the coal fields of Southeastern Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. Most of the trains I saw were on the NYC, NKP, B&O, and PRR. The hopper cars tended, for the most part, to belong to the home road or their subsidiaries, but a lot of visitors showed up from other roads. Most of these visitors were from other nearby roads such as B&LE, Union, Montour, Cambria & Indiana, Berwind, and others. It wasn't terribly unusual to find an occasional PRR car mixed in among a string of B&O cars, and vice versa.
If you go back in history a ways, you will see that railroads tended to favor larger 70 ton cars for large industrial customers because of their larger capacity. The smaller 50-55 ton cars were the jack of all trades that were more useful for smaller shipments, such as deliveries to small home heat outlets. As the market for home heat coal declined, these smaller cars were used more and more for the larger customers, supplementing the 70 ton cars. Before anybody pipes up to disagree, I will add that this is a gross generalization that should not be thought of as a universal truth. Many roads that served large industrial customers did so with large fleets of smaller hoppers.
Hopper cars did routinely operate some distance from home rails. B&O sent long strings of hoppers to Lake Erie ports with West Virginia coal. There, the cars were loaded with iron ore for Bethlehem Steel, and operated to Eastern PA via PRR and LV. Many photos have shown these long B&O strings on the PRR's line through Shamokin. Back in the late 1950's or early 1960's, Kalmbach's Model Trains Magazine had a great, short article on West Virgina's Middle Fork Railroad. The photos showed lots of B&O cars, but among them was at least one hopper from the Erie, which was nowhere near the M. F., and at least one hopper from the far-off Milwaukee Road! I have seen records indicating that an AC&Y hopper (which had been purchased specifically for limestone service out of Carey, Ohio), was derailed while hauling coal out of a mine on the PRR in Central Pennsylvania.
Tom