The old Soo Line had to plate over caboose windows because in certain areas in mid-Wisconsin, people were deliberately taking pot-shots at lighted caboose windows when passing through woodsy areas!
As mentioned above, I also also read evidence in several places that trainmen on railroads passing through "Cow Towns" should extinguish their signal lanterns through so they didn't draw gunfire from drunken trail herders! Though drunk, as the old saying goes, "Even a blind pig can find an acorn every once in a while!"
Deano
Wow! This is more information than I expected -- thanks, all.
"Nitwits" is an understatement! The forum doesn't allow for properly descriptive words to be used.
I wonder how many good people had their lives ruined before the guards were put in place. Tragic.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Nitwits throwing things at trains is hardly a 20th century phenomenon. A book of railroad history I mislaid a long time ago had a poster put up by a railroad offering a reward to anyone who could identify the person who was throwing rocks at their train. It was done in the 'seven different sizes and kinds of typeface' common in the 1870-1880 period.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Many Amtrak Locomotives had "Ghetto Grills", grills placed over the windshields to prevent hanging cinder blocks from crashing through windshields and into the engineer's face. It was common on E-60s and F-40s. I don't know how much they are in use on the new stuff
wjstix In the 1970's-80's it wasn't unusual for engines in the northeast that regularly ran in urban areas to have a grating over the windows for protection. http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/163945/1804747.aspx However, it things happened outside of the big cities. My mom was on the Great Northern "Badger" in 1968 or '69 in a remote area of Minnesota when one of the passenger car's windows was shot out. Fortunately no one was hurt. It was never determined if it was a conscious act of vandalism, or just a wrong place / wrong time deal with a deer hunter's errant shot.
In the 1970's-80's it wasn't unusual for engines in the northeast that regularly ran in urban areas to have a grating over the windows for protection.
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/163945/1804747.aspx
However, it things happened outside of the big cities. My mom was on the Great Northern "Badger" in 1968 or '69 in a remote area of Minnesota when one of the passenger car's windows was shot out. Fortunately no one was hurt. It was never determined if it was a conscious act of vandalism, or just a wrong place / wrong time deal with a deer hunter's errant shot.
Many years ago I was traveling through Wisconsin on the Builder, on my way to Minneapolis, when a hunter consciously and deliberately took a bead on the train. He didn't fire, but it would only have taken a slip of a finger. For those who may be concerned, Amtrak trains have Lexan windows that are bulletproof. I don't know what it would take to breach one of those windows, but it would take considerable force.
Tom
Some early plate-overs were due to sun entering the cab at annoying angles and heating it up, particularly in warmer climates. Since the windows weren't really useful from the control stand anyway, they were no big loss. It kind of negates all the trouble Alco went through with its switchers, as the windows were enough of a selling point that Alco modified/lowered the 538 engine into the 539 by altering the motor mounts as part of the improvements from the HH line to the S1/S2 line.
hon30critterI guess that's just the reality of the modern world.
In some urban areas, cinder blocks would be suspended from bridges on rope— right at cab height. "Rocking the train" didn't exactly mean seeing if you could get it to sway... quite a few crew members were injured.
Back when the railroad club I belonged to would run a fan trip it wasn't unusual to come back with at least a dozen broken windows. Those "thermopane" dual glass windows in the lightweight cars ran about $400 to replace back then!
hon30critter It seems even the railroad world has no shortage of cretins.
Seems like it is not just limited to trains:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/woman-hit-face-8-lb-rock-dropped-penn-overpass-article-1.1868125
Yes, makes you wonder about what some people "do" for entertainment.
Ed
Ed:
Interesting information. I figured that railroads were being cheap by plating over some windows but I never understood the reasoning. Frankly, it makes me cringe when it had to be done to keep the crews safe from 'thrown objects'. It seems even the railroad world has no shortage of cretins. I guess that's just the reality of the modern world.
Hi, Aaron
It's tough to say for certain that every locomotive in the series got steel plates in leiu of the windows. If the locomotive was slated to be placed out of service, for eventual scrapping, anytime soon the railroad would probably have held off, knowing it's livelyhood would be short. The railroads had time to comply or file for exemptions but sooner-or-later, the engine had to be refitted with compliant glazing or be pulled out of service.
The main reason for removing the windows was due to new regulations, then from the AAR and today from the FRA in regards to "end facing glazing".
Standards for locomotive cab windows were being upgraded to reduce injuries from thrown objects and other projectiles. Some Northeast railroads had steel grating over the windshields.
Steel plating was much cheaper than the extra thick safety glass or Lexan®, so if they could get away with it, steel was the choice.
Side windows, as in cabooses and passenger cars were also being required to withstand higher impact so many of them (cabooses) were being plated over, too.
Current standard is here:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div5&node=49:4.1.1.1.18
Often, the inside of the cab would be stenciled "FRA Type I Glazing" if the glass had been upgraded. Side windows would be FRA Type II.
Regards, Ed
Just bought sold old (old!) Stewart RS-3s -- the old Athearn-drive kits, with NYC shells. (Why? The seller made me an offer I couldn't refuse.) They have the plain black paint scheme with white sills. Some of the photos I've seen have the center windows plated over. From what little I've researched, these units got some serious work done on them in or around 1966. Would all units in this paint scheme have those windows plated over?
Thanks
Aaron