Got yet another one for my Forum Friends. I have plans for a tourist type railroad for a layout ecpansion. It uses steam engines and passenger cars with solid bearing trucks. IIRR, what I have read tells me that prototype railroads used rags soaked in an oil-type lubricant on the solid bearing trucks to lube them. From everything that I have read, those lubricants that were quite flammable.
The questions are these: Am I correct that a storage structure for these lubricants would be fairly small in square footage; a single story; most likely brick (for strength) and with a minimum of doors, windows and maybe an overhead door for ease in moving drums? Am I also correct that this structure would be detached from any engine house to prevent any fire/explosion/etc from damaging the engine house and the engines in them? If there is any else I need to know, please let me know.
As usual, thank you in advance for any help that the forums can provide.
Hi,
Here is a drawing of a Lackawanna oil house that was in Scranton, PA. Not small by any means.
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/pa1904.sheet.00001a/resource/
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/pa1904.sheet.00002a/resource/
I have some plans for a similar structure that was shown in the PRR Standard plans book, both brick, one was smaller. on one floor and 15' x 10' the other larger with a cellar measuring 30' x 42'
I'm also looking at plans for the NYC roundhouse in Rensselaer, NY, and the oil room is right next to the machine shop, measuring 20' x 40' and within the roundhouse building.
The oils used weren't particularly flammable unless exposed to heat. Valve oil was heavy and sticky. The locomotives that burned bunker C, or #6 fuel oil had to heat the oil to 220-260°F to lower its flash point. Sure, journal oil burned but only after getting very hot by the friction of the bearing.
The car department would have their own storage for journal oil closer to the rip track or car shop.
A couple of the roundhouses I'm familiar with had smaller oil storage rooms inside and larger, designated areas in the stores department building or stockhouse, where drums were stored.
Of course, a great deal would depend on the size and complexity of the particular engine service facility.
Good Luck, Ed
Flammable is relative here. It was pretty much just oil. But yes, the usual way of hnadling it was to have it in a separate structure. One that comes to mind and is available in HO is the Cibolo Crossing Alamosa Oil Service house.
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/mint-cibolo-crossing-alamosa-oil-1505641976
Pretty sure it's out of production, but can be found. It waa still standing last time I was there, but that's been a decade or so, located in the area of the wye near where the roundhouse and shops used to be.
I think Chama has a similar structure, but can't find a reference to it.
As a former inventory clerk in a fleet maintenance shop, the idea of housing it in a separate structure was not just for safety reasons. It was also to better enforce inventory control over what used to be relatively expensive supplies. If a mechanic has to go someplace and interact with another person, it's more likely such fluids are charged off the inventory properly. It gets to be a real mess with the bean counters when your oil is mostly gone, but it 's not charged off and needs to be adjusted off the books. Since it's not charged off properly, it doesn't get entered properly against the individual loco, also making it appear that the unit wasn't properly serviced.
In the old days, the best way to track this was to set a clerk up in his own warehouse to keep track of the inventory. Labor was cheap then.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
mlehmanIn the old days, the best way to track this was to set a clerk up in his own warehouse to keep track of the inventory. Labor was cheap then.
Actually there was a brotherhood covering those type of jobs so,it wasn't all that cheap.
The old saying was if you want to make money in order to have nice things then go to work on the railroad. Dads,sons,brothers etc would go to railroading for a living.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE Actually there was a brotherhood covering those type of jobs so,it wasn't all that cheap. The old saying was if you want to make money in order to have nice things then go to work on the railroad. Dads,sons,brothers etc would go to railroading for a living.
CentralGulfOil is material, and like any other company owned material in those days, it was managed carefully. CG
Two of the biggest pillage items when I worked on the railroad was motor oil for the MOW trucks and Starlite lanterns. I lost my Starlite and almost had to have a act of Congress with the President's signature to get a replacement. Oddly I could get two or three batteries every day without questions being ask just by signing my name.
Here's an interesting oil "house' in 1954.
CG
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
gmpullman Hi, Here is a drawing of a Lackawanna oil house that was in Scranton, PA. Not small by any means. http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/pa1904.sheet.00001a/resource/ http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/pa1904.sheet.00002a/resource/
I decided to download the files to take a look at them. I was amazed when I pulled them up in my graphics program at both how big those blueprints were as well as the resolution of the files. Normally when I download graphic files, they are small and low-resolution.
What I was thinking about building is scale 32' L x 15' W. Given that I haven't started any form of contruction, I can change the plan around as needed.
gmpullman The car department would have their own storage for journal oil closer to the rip track or car shop.
Given that in my eventual setup, the car storage/shop and the steam engine storage/shop aren't that far apart, I think I can get away with one structure for the both of them.
dehusman As others have said the lubricants weren't particularly flammable. A modern road would not have used rags. Back in the 1980's we used purpose made cotton fabric pads that fit in the journal box and were designed to wick oil to the bearing. The problem with rags in the modern era is there are so many synthetic fibers out there and a lot of cloth is treated with fire and stain repellants which could cause the cloth to repell oil and defeat the purpose of the packing. If the rags were Scotchguarded they would cause a hot box failure. Back in the 1800's getting natural fiber cloth was easy. Today, not so much.
As others have said the lubricants weren't particularly flammable. A modern road would not have used rags. Back in the 1980's we used purpose made cotton fabric pads that fit in the journal box and were designed to wick oil to the bearing. The problem with rags in the modern era is there are so many synthetic fibers out there and a lot of cloth is treated with fire and stain repellants which could cause the cloth to repell oil and defeat the purpose of the packing. If the rags were Scotchguarded they would cause a hot box failure. Back in the 1800's getting natural fiber cloth was easy. Today, not so much.
"Rags" was only intended to be a generic term. As the era in question is the mid-1970s, I guess the purpose made pads would be the "rags."
gmpullman The oils used weren't particularly flammable unless exposed to heat. Valve oil was heavy and sticky. The locomotives that burned bunker C, or #6 fuel oil had to heat the oil to 220-260°F to lower its flash point. Sure, journal oil burned but only after getting very hot by the friction of the bearing.
If I understand lube uses correctly, based on the fact that these steamers burn coal, the only things that would need to be stored in the building would be the valve oil as well as the truck lube oil.
It's my understanding that cotton waste was used, with oil, in the journal boxes, rather than rags (waste cotton).
Here's the Erie Northshore's oil house, the brick building with the green door, on the far side of the crane runway....
...and here, with a Company Service boxcar blocking the view, likely picking up kerosene for distribution to the stations, crossing watchman's shanties, and section houses along the line...
The structure, seen here, is mostly Model Diecasting parts from one of their 3-in-1 kits, plus a loading dock leftover from a Walthers kit:
Wayne
I may be mistaken, but that lube facility at Scranton is probably still there - repurposed as Steamtown's book and gift shop. I know the latter was in part of a lube facility and the customers had to climb steps to a platform in order to enter.
Bought my copy of Josserand's Rights of Trains there in 1995.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with a more spartan lube facility)
You are right about the lube house at Steamtown. It is the bookstore / gift shop. A little off topic but of interest may be a building that was designed to hold explosives like nitro or dynamite. One of my favorite railroads had several of these around their system. The buildings were all thick brick with only a door--no windows. The roofs were tin. If the contents blew up the structure acted like a cannon. The explosion would go straight up through the tin roof into the air, thus causing only minimal damage to anything near the building. As for journal packing it was indeed cotton waste. If the waste went dry and heated up it would catch fire. That is what was known as a hot box.