HELP: Tail Gate light on Passenger Car Questions

[mlehman]

gmpullman

I don't know what the reason for the two flat brackets were above each marker light.

Ed,

I'm pretty sure that flat brackets are to keep the lamp hooked to the bracket pointed straight back. If not there, then a lamp placed in the bracket would tilt off to the side a few degrees because of the angled walls on either side of the door frame so that the markers would not display with proper visibility.

[Trainman440]

Ok I get it now!

I meant the 2 built in markers as the 2 nubs. You answered that question already.

Thanks again, 

Charles

[gmpullman]

Trainman440

Wow! Thanks a lot for the detailed reply!

Glad to help. I'm no expert but I've picked up a few things along the way.

I think what we're looking at here would be a "rider car" or a coach that has been converted to crew use or maybe MOW. Most of PRR maintenance equip was painted yellow, though.

Steam line has been removed so this car was probably not used in regular passenger trains.

Diaphragm has been removed. There used to be a leaf-spring between the two clevises at the roof line. are those the "nubs" you refer to?

I don't know what the reason for the two flat brackets were above each marker light. As the dimension shows, the red lens in the marker was only 1-1/2 or less in diameter.

Hope that helps,

Ed

[Trainman440]

Wow! Thanks a lot for the detailed reply!

In the photo, is the cat eye marker lights the 2 nubs (the things parallel to the marker light mounts)? Or are they the signature PRR style marker lights?

Also, what are the 2 nubs for?

Charles

[gmpullman]

Hi, Charles,

1. The gates are supposed to be across the opening of the first and last occupied passenger car. They were not usually used mid-train unless that train was going to have cars dropped or added. Then the train crew (or station yard crew) was supposed to secure the end platform until the switching was finished and the train complete again. Often there were "head-end" baggage or express cars, sometimes on both ends of the train, with locked doors so you couldn't pass through anyway.

Sometimes the door was locked between the coach and Pullman sleeping cars. You had to ring for the Porter to open the door and have a good reason to have to pass through the Pullman section of the train.

2. In THAT particular photo the red blinking light was acting as the marker. Sometimes it could have been a flag stuck in the knuckle of the coupler. I see the crew hung the marker from the chain since there was no easy way to climb out and reach the marker brackets and that looks like an old PRR baggage car so the batteries on the car were probably dead and the built-in electric "cat-eye" markers couldn't be used. In later years, especially with CTC and more advanced signal systems and fewer occupied signal towers the actual need for marker lamps was reduced. Many NYC trains in the 1960s had a 10" reflective red disk as the marker.

When the marker of a train passed the tower, only then could the operator telegraph and "OS" his train sheet (On Sheet) that the train had passed. This was to assure that the train had not broken in two or that the train had to be "doubled" up a grade.

3. Normally, yes. Some "head-end" equipment may not have had a full gate installed (hence the chain in the photo). There was either a bar type gate or a scissors-like extendable gate.

Even with full gates installed there have been instances of confused or "sleep-walking" passengers falling off the ends of trains. The end door is supposed to be locked.

4. The two things are actually one PRR style battery powered "marker" just like a highway flasher but unseen is the "T" shaped bracket that fits in the standard flag/marker bracket. It is hanging at an angle, probably with bailing wire. In the 1960s PRR began using lots of these markers. There's two lantern 6v. batteries in the yellow box.

That battery lamp represents the end of the train—and a train, by definition, is not "complete" without that marker. Could be a flag, lantern or one or two marker lamps. The trainmaster or dispatcher could dictate what could be used as a "marker" by whatever was approved according to the rules. 

If an engine with cars passes an open station the operator can not report that the train has passed unless (s)he sees the designated marker.

Way more than could be covered here... like you ask in your other post, you need to get a rule book and timetable and become familiar with both 

[edit] I see there are steps and a vestibule door latch on the car in your photo so it probably isn't a baggage car but the diaphragm is gone, replaced by two pipes and chains. Either way, as long as the lamp hanging from the end chain was accepted practice, the crew didn't have to hang the marker from the brackets like they usually did in the "glory days" of railroading.

Others, I'm sure, have more to add.

Hope that helps, Ed

[7j43k]

There are suddenly yakky talking commercials dropping in to the forum, so I can't properly give your question any attention.

 

Sorry, maybe when they're gone,

 

Ed

[Trainman440]

I have a few questions concerning Tail gate lights on Passenger cars...

1. Are the tail gates on a passenger car only on the end of the last car in a passenger train? Or are their gates on all sides of all passenger cars?

2. Do tailgate lights subsitute for the marker lights on the end of the train? If not, why/when are they used?

3. Were there tail gates on the end of every passenger train without an observation car?

4. What are the 2 things on the chain in this pic?

Thanks,

Charles