I got more reefers then I need, but sort on grain equip.
Does anyone know if reefers were ever used in grain service.It seemes like an believable task, but don't recall ever seeing/hearing about it.
time frame 40s/50s
what ya all think
Probably didn't happen if at all.
To load grain you would have to nail a grain door across the reefer door opening which could damage it or the frame. The grain would contaminate the car which would mean it would need extensive cleaning afterwards. Plus reefers weren't in general service, a railroad wasn't supposed to just grab them and load them without the owner's permission. It would also take the reefer out of its service for a month or so, which would not be popular for the reefer shippers.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Let's put it in real terms.. The gain would be stored on the ground before any railroad would use a reefer.
Today a railroad won't even use a boxcar-the grain is stored on the ground until enough grain hoppers can be found for less then unit train shipments..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Kalmbach has published Jeff Wilson's book "The Model Railroader's Guide to Grain" and he verifies that, yes, railroads did use reefers to haul grain (and regular coal hoppers and - gasp -- stock cars lined with plywood. Since shipping grain called for interior grain doors anyway it didn't much matter that reefers lacked the usual boxcar doors. What Wilson does say is that this practice was more common when many 40 ft boxcars had been retired but the railroads either lacked enough covered hoppers or the elevators were on branch lines that could not accept the covered hopper axle loading.
He also says the stock cars and reefers were provided 2 for the price of 1 [boxcar] because the load limit was lower.
I do recall when the Illinois Railway Museum made a bit of money - a Swift Premium reefer which had been donated to them was leased out during the grain rush because the railroad (either the CNW or perhaps the BN) was desperately short of cars. But again that was by the time when 40 ft boxcars with 6 ft doors were starting to become rare.
During the grain rush all manner of usual practices and even car forwarding rules are suspended. Many midwestern railroads ran their last steam, sometimes stuff stored for years, during the grain rushes of the late 1950s.
Dave Nelson
Dave,If I might ask.. Why would a railroad use a reefer when its needed for meats and vegetables? Never heard of a stock car being used either.. I just hope they steam cleaned those stockers before placing them in grain service. PHEW! even when empty with clean hay.
I do know since the 50s small grain shippers been screaming for cars and get the brush off. This has been covered in Trains Magazine and several trade publications over the years.
There's been cases where the grainery located on a short line had to truck their grain to a bigger railroad because the short line could not get covered hoppers from their connecting road. And guess where that trucked grain was loaded? Yup, on the connecting road.
dknelsonDuring the grain rush all manner of usual practices and even car forwarding rules are suspended. Many midwestern railroads ran their last steam, sometimes stuff stored for years, during the grain rushes of the late 1950s.
OK I gather that,not likly, or often, it was possible. Contaminationn never crossed my mind. Being my road is poor and no money for equip. maybe they had some oder reefers and converted them to grain only.
I won't get rid of the reefers and I rather run them as to have em sitting on a shelf.
Thank you Sirs I appreceate it
BRAKIE Dave,If I might ask.. Why would a railroad use a reefer when its needed for meats and vegetables? Never heard of a stock car being used either.. I just hope they steam cleaned those stockers before placing them in grain service. PHEW! even when empty with clean hay.
What Wilson indicates is that when 40 ft boxcars were being retired there were plenty of servicable ice bunker reefers available for other duty because mechanical reefers had more or less taken over. And prior to that it may well be that the grain rush came when the prime vegetable shipping season was winding down or over and the cars used for fruit and vegetables were available. The beef cars had interior overhead rail hangers and meat hooks that would have made them unlikely candidates for grain service in any event, plus they were almost all in dedicated service for one meat packer only, unlike most fruit/vegetable reefers which were in more general service.
I assume (pray?) that when stock cars were lined with plywood to be used in grain service that not just the sides and ends and doors, but also the floors were lined, maybe even the roofs too, so that the grain never touched anything that .... how to phrase this ... "other organic materials" (or liquids) had previously touched. But you would think that the odor would linger on. And on. The Morning Sun color book "C&NW Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment, vol. 2 Revenue Freight Cars" has two photos of CNW stock cars, lined with plywood and semi permanently coupled together, and reclassified by the railroad as an 82' 10" boxcar! One set was in grain service. The other set was in flax service. As someone who adds flax to each morning's cereal breakfast, I am doubly glad those days are behind us. As a modeler who, like the C&NW, has an excess of stock cars that are no longer needed on my late 1960s layout, plus a boxfull of rectangular bits of microplywood leftover from various laser cut kits, it definitely gives me an idea ....
Dave,Thanks.. I should have known it was during the time of the 40' boxcar shortage. That would make sense.
BRAKIE Dave,Thanks.. I should have known it was during the time of the 40' boxcar shortage. That would make sense.
Yep, coincided with the excess of ice bunker reefers as that service was running down in the late 60s/early 70s.
Still, it was a relatively rare event. I wouldn't start a unit train of reefers to your elevator . More like a few to fill-in while the purchasing dept got some suitable LOs delivered.
One advantage some reefers had was that they had folding ice bunkers. This way when used off-season for other freight or to backhaul dry loads west, they had the max cube available. Presuming these folded up clear of the hatches, it may have been possible to load them from the top through the hatches.
They may not have required grain doors. The swinging doors sealed up well enough, both to prevent loss of the load and water penetration. Would've been hard to get just a sample, but that could have been ignored in an emergency when these cars were placed in this service.
One big drawback would've been the self-draining floors. Many reefers had these, both to drain melt from icing and to aid air circulation around the load. This would've been a real pain to sweep out.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
About the early 1970s an elevator in Northwest Iowa leased some surplus stock cars from the Rock Island. They lined them with plywood and used them to ship grain.
Jeff
I suppose it wouldn't be hard to get grain into a wood reefer, by putting the hose in one of the roof hatches. I suspect if it was an ongoing problem, the railroad would have their shop crew rebuild some under-used reefers into boxcars.
wjstixI suppose it wouldn't be hard to get grain into a wood reefer, by putting the hose in one of the roof hatches.
I would think there would have to be quite a bit of modification to load this way, through the hatches, since the ice bunkers were screened off from the lading area.
Many reefers had wood slats on the floors that could be raised for cleaning but they were hinged on one side. There were drain pipes that would certainly have to be covered as well.
Not impossible but an awful lot of modifications... I wonder if, say, the floor racks were removed, where would they be stored and how would they ever get replaced into the same car again?
Regards, Ed
Ed,
Thanks for the pics. That's why I noted potential use of the ice hatches for loading depends on how the bunkers/racks folded. Fixed ones simply wouldn't work. Some of the folding ones probably wouldn't either, depending on the configuration. But the floor racks that fold to the side wouldn't be much of an issue except for the car cleaners finding them a PITA to work around.
Again meat reefers would have been unlikely candidates for grain service not just due to all the "stuff" that shows up in the pics that Ed posted, but due to the nature of their service to a dedicated shipper.
My point was more that yes, if no other option was open, a railroad may have been able to ship grain in a reefer. I don't think it was something that happened more than a few times here and there; before this string, I had never heard of it being done.
I have heard of railroads shipping creosoted railroad ties in stock cars in the winter...the creosote fumes could build up in a boxcar, but the stock car provided ventilation.
During the mid 70's, Peavy had a fleet of used blue reefers in grain sevice. TThey did not last long as fleets covered hoppers replaced them...
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
wjstixI have heard of railroads shipping creosoted railroad ties in stock cars in the winter...the creosote fumes could build up in a boxcar, but the stock car provided ventilation.
On the narrowgauge, the Rio Grande would use stock cars to ship coal when they ran short of coal cars AKA gondolas if you're from back East. Since stock moved seasonally, this made good use of assets that would otherwise be sitting. This was back in the day when the labor to unload them was cheap and only occurred from time to time.
dknelson Again meat reefers would have been unlikely candidates for grain service not just due to all the "stuff" that shows up in the pics that Ed posted, but due to the nature of their service to a dedicated shipper. Dave Nelson
Dave,
I assumed that the pics were simply representative examples of how reefers were fitted out inside, rather than representing that the specific car depicted was used to ship coal. The specific examples cited of this use also seemed to have occurred at the end of the service life of ice-cooled reefers, so this would seem to indicate any cars so used had already been superceded in the service to which they were assigned. I've got no idea if meat reefers were involved or not, but the circumstances suggest this wouldn't necessarily preclude such service.
Uncle, interested in selling or giving away any of your reefers?
This is good info to know of how folks used reefers back in the 50s. I use them in the early 1980s.