Railroads in Monterey Calif.

[Anonymous]

Hi All,

My book idea came about from seeing the old tracks when I was a kid. As I grew up into the SP nut that I am today I became discouraged at the lack of material on the branch or trains. As I started to collect material on it, I just thought why not put out a book on it. So far the idea has had a positive response from people. My biggest road block is finishing my degree first. So in the meantime I meet and write to people that have or know where old information is. I have been to the Union Pacific, CSRM, Bancroft, Monterey, Salinas, and San Jose libraries. I have also gotten photos from most of the big photographers. Now I look for smaller collections and those that might have photos (and would love to chat with those that rode the line).

Del Monte Dave :)

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Del Monte Dave

Hi all,

I was looking around online and found this post about the Monterey branch. I'm not sure if any of you are on the Southern Pacfiic yahoo group but I am currently researching this line for a future book. What caught my eye was the post from the gentleman whose wife rode the train. Finding people that actually rode it is very interestring to me because the Del Monte was already dead by the time I was born.

If anyone has stories, photos, or documents to share or has questions about the branch I am always happy to talk about it.

And by the way, yes, there was a wye at Castroville to turn the trains. I have it shown on 2 old maps that I have copies of. Hope that helps.

Take care,

Del Monte Dave :)

I'm a member of the Espee Yahoo group and it was my wife who rode the train.

Andre

[CFournier]

Del Monte Dave
Tell us more about that book you are working on.
Christian

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

I was looking around online and found this post about the Monterey branch. I'm not sure if any of you are on the Southern Pacfiic yahoo group but I am currently researching this line for a future book. What caught my eye was the post from the gentleman whose wife rode the train. Finding people that actually rode it is very interestring to me because the Del Monte was already dead by the time I was born.

If anyone has stories, photos, or documents to share or has questions about the branch I am always happy to talk about it.

And by the way, yes, there was a wye at Castroville to turn the trains. I have it shown on 2 old maps that I have copies of. Hope that helps.

Take care,

Del Monte Dave :)

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CFournier

Andre,
This is a wonderfull web site on the Row. I thank you so much! It is invaluable information to me. Thanks.
Christian

This might also help: http://www.monterey.org/museum/canneryrow/trains.html

At the bottom of this page http://www.monterey.org/museum/canneryrow/index.html is a map of Cannery Row as it appears today. The area marked "recreation trail" is where the rail line used to be.

Andre

[CFournier]

Andre,
This is a wonderfull web site on the Row. I thank you so much! It is invaluable information to me. Thanks.
Christian

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CFournier

Andre,
I have an historical map of Monterey showing the Palace flophouse on the corner of Irving st. and Wave st. I have another map showing it at Hoffman and Lighthouse ave. Wich is right? Same thing for the La Ida bar: one map says it was near Irving and the other map places it on the corner of David st.???
Chris

I don't know if this will help, but check it out. http://www.thehistorycompany.com/Research/Neighborhood/neighborhood.html

and this: http://www.thehistorycompany.com/Research/Neighborhood/Core_close.html

And this: http://www.thehistorycompany.com/albums/Wing_Chong_Market/wing_chong_intro.html

Andre

[CFournier]

Andre,
I have an historical map of Monterey showing the Palace flophouse on the corner of Irving st. and Wave st. I have another map showing it at Hoffman and Lighthouse ave. Wich is right? Same thing for the La Ida bar: one map says it was near Irving and the other map places it on the corner of David st.???
Chris

[CFournier]

Andre,
In one corner of my layout,I am modeling a harbor with a wharf, canneries and a street with Western Biological Lab., La Ida café, the Bear Flag ( house of ill repute...) Lee Chong's grocery store and of course the Palace Flophouse where "Mack and the boys" will be sitting outside catching the late afternoon sun. I got a few maps of Monterey on the internet. I plan to have a tugboat tied up to the wharf. I am a fan of John Steinbeck as you can see! I have never been in Monterey but spent a few weeks in SanFrancisco, Big Sur, Yosemite... I model the WP in an un-prototypical way...I know the WP never had a track in Monterey...But Cannery Row is a mythical place to me, so...Now if I could find pictures of those places I mentioned here, that would help me model them. I model the late 50's, so the Heisler will work on a mine siding on the other end of the layout. I would like to go in California next summer. I will be in Orlando in March and will ride Walt Disney's steam train with my 5 year old engineer Thomas!
Chris

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CFournier

Andre,
I can't believe I will be able to fit my Rivarossi Heisler on my layout and right on the Monterey-Cannery Row module! It is lettered for the CoosBay lumber co.
but can always be relettered !
Chris

Yeah, but only if you're modeling the line between 1965 and 1985. *** O'Kane, who owned the Heisler, was going to run it as a tourist operation. There was an article in the July 27, 1965 Monterey Peninsula Herald. In 1985, when it became obvious that it just wasn't going to happen, O'Kane donated the loco to the Pacific Locomotive Assn.

Are you modeling Monterey?

Andre

[CFournier]

Andre,
I can't believe I will be able to fit my Rivarossi Heisler on my layout and right on the Monterey-Cannery Row module! It is lettered for the CoosBay lumber co.
but can always be relettered !
Chris

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CFournier

Andre,
I mentioned reefers because I assumed a fishing industry would have some produce to send fresh or frozen in them. Tankcars to cary fishmeal or fertilizer made with fish residue?
Chris

AFAIK, the major catch up until the late 40's was sardines. But given the thousands of tons of sardines caught, you may have a point (at least with guts of the fish being cleaned out of them and maybe rendered into fertilizer).

The more I think about it, the more I am seriously consdering building a layout based on the Monterey Branch. Living within walking distance of the Monterey Public Library makes research a bit easier. I made an initial reconnaissance foray this afternoon and was shown Sanborn maps of the area (trackage, building locations, streets, etc.) from 1926. That really makes layout planning a lot easier. I'll have to go to Pacific Grove for their Sanborn maps to see what it looked like in a time reasonably close to the era I want to model (late 1940's).

I'll be glad to post information here as I find it. For instance, I found out that the Pacific Grove station was closed in 1957, the Monterey station was modified during WWII to its present configuration and that the sand mining operation in Del Monte Forest (near Asilomar) was discontinued in 1973.

Oh, incidentally, while I was looking over the available information, I found a couple of articles on the movement of Pickering Lumber Company's Heisler #1 from its location on Cannery Row to the facilities of the Pacific Locomotive Association. I'm a member of PLA and was one of the crew that got #1 loaded onto a lowboy. Here's a link to a picture of the engine: http://www.ncry.org/roster/s_01/plc1.shtml

Andre

[CFournier]

Andre,
I mentioned reefers because I assumed a fishing industry would have some produce to send fresh or frozen in them. Tankcars to cary fishmeal or fertilizer made with fish residue?
Chris

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CFournier

Andre,
Thank you for the usefull infos. I suppose you could find boxcars, reefers and tankcars parked on the cannery sidings?
Chris.

I seriously doubt there would be any reefers on the cannery sidings since canned goods don't need any refrigeration. Most of the traffic at the canneries would have been boxcars. I believe the boilers in the canneries were oil fired, so there probably would have been some tank car traffic.

More useful info: http://wx4.org/to/foam/sp/san_jose/long_haul/del/monte.html

http://wx4.org/to/foam/sp/san_jose/long_haul/del/monte4.html

http://wx4.org/to/foam/sp/san_jose/long_haul/del/monte3.html

Andre.

[CFournier]

Andre,
Thank you for the usefull infos. I suppose you could find boxcars, reefers and tankcars parked on the cannery sidings?
Chris.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CFournier

Thank you very much, I have another question: do you know if the tracks ran in the streets near cannery row or behind the canneries between Wave street and Cannery row?
Chris.

There was no street running. The line ran between Wave St. and Cannery Row. IIRC, however, there were canneries (or at least annexes) along Wave as well as Cannery Row and the line ran between them. Incidentally, the street nearest the ocean was called Ocean View until renamed in 1958. Beyond Cannery Row, it still retains the Ocean View name.

BTW, there's an outfit that can probably provide you with photos of the railroad as it relates to Cannery Row. http://www.caviews.com/.

Here's a link to an aerial view of the station at Pacific Grove taken from a tethered baloon in 1906: http://www.caviews.com/Aerial.html

Andre

[CFournier]

Thank you very much, I have another question: do you know if the tracks ran in the streets near cannery row or behind the canneries between Wave street and Cannery row?
Chris.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

Southern Pacific's "Western Region Timetable 3", effective October 29, 1989 lists the branch going as far as Seaside. I would guess the rest was abandoned when Ford Ord closed.

That sounds about right. The track is still in place as far as Seaside.

Andre

[ericsp]

I cannot confirm that these photopgrahs were taken where it is said they were taken.

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/hopper/h070-03a.htm
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/hopper/h070-06.htm
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/hopper/h070-14.htm

[ericsp]

Southern Pacific's "Western Region Timetable 3", effective October 29, 1989 lists the branch going as far as Seaside. I would guess the rest was abandoned when Ford Ord closed.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CFournier

" Mack and the Boys" would like to know what RR deserved the area of Monterey and the downtown cannery row in the 40's 50's 60's.
Was there other industries worth modeling in the area ?
Chris.

It was the Southern Pacific and Cannery Row was about a mile or so west of downtown Monterey. The railroad actually ran to Pacific Grove, but was cut back to Monterey before the branch was abandoned. I forget the year.

The Monterey branch left the main line at Castroville (about 5-6 miles north of Salinas). Just outside the town of Marina, there was (actually still is although not now served by rail) a sand loading facility. Fort Ord, which is located between Marina and Monterey was also served by rail and there was some fairly extensive trackage within the facility. Fort Ord could be considered an "industry" and would have even seen sizeable troop trains on occasion at least into the 60's as well as freight delivery.

The sardine canneries in what was called "New Monterey were located on both sides of the line and provided substantial seasonal traffic to the SP. However, around 1950 or so, the sardine catch went into a rapid decline and the traffic dried up, ending sometime around 1960 or so, IIRC.

The Monterey Branch was distinguished by being host to a named passenger train, the "Del Monte" right up until the formation of Amtrak. Diesel power on the "Del Monte" was always a boiler equipped GP-9 or two (usually with dual controls so they could be run either long or short hood leading). In the latter steam days (up until 1955), the "Del Monte" was pulled by one of SP's remaining three P-6 class 4-6-2's 2453, 2454 or 2458. The others were transferred to the T&NO in Texas and streamlined for use on Dallas - Houston trains "Hustler" and "Sunbeam".

Until cut back to Monterey (in the 60's I believe), the "Del Monte" terminated in Pacific Grove. PG, as it's called, had a 75' foot turntable which was barely long enough to turn the Pacifics, which were equipped with short 9000 gallon rectangular tenders as the Vanderbilts would have been too long. My wife, who grew up in Monterey and rode the "Del Monte" in steam informed me recently that there was also a wye in PG, but I have not yet had the time to confirm this. It doesn't make sense that there was one as it wouldn't have been necessary to keep the short tenders on the Pacifics if there were. However, it's possible. Beyond PG, there was a line to another sand facility which provided many carloads of top grade sand to Owens CorningGlass. IIRC, that facility was located roughly in the area of Asilomar.

Steam motive power (besides the Pacifics) on the branch in the 10 years following WWII would have been limited to 2-8-0's (e.g C-8, 9, 10) and 4-6-0's (generally T-28's or T-31's) as well as an occasional appearance by one of SP's 4-8-0's in class TW-8 (prior to 1950).

Diesel power, both freight and passenger were GP-9's. The passenger GP's were usually the ones equipped with dual controls so they could be run short or long hood forward.

Hope this helps.

[johncolley]

There were SP tracks, I believe, from the Salinas Valley Line out to Fort Ord and down along Del Monte Ave in Monterey where the walking/bike trail is now.

[DSchmitt]

Southern Pacific

http://www.santacruzpl.org/history/trans/trans.shtml
http://www.santacruzpl.org/history/work/edoview.shtml

[CFournier]

" Mack and the Boys" would like to know what RR deserved the area of Monterey and the downtown cannery row in the 40's 50's 60's.
Was there other industries worth modeling in the area ?
Chris.