Western Pacific train consist

[CFournier]

Since I'm modeling the WP in the 50's, I try to figure out what number and type of cars would be on a typical WP freight going in the canyon towards Salt-Lake, or on a westward leg. I suppose there would be less than 15 to 20 percent WP own cars, many UP, ATSF,SP,DRGW, CBQ?. But in what proportion?
I saw somewere WP had a contract carying automobiles?
And then again how many boxcars, flatcars, tankcars,hoppers??? I'm not going to run 100 cars train but probably in the range of 20-25 cars.
Please don't recommend a book I could'nt find here in eastern Canada...
Any help???
Chris

[johncolley]

Gee, you forgot the interchange at Beiber! Great Northern came down the inside of Oregon to meet the WP there. Beiber is at the top of the highline north from Keddie's famous wye. One could expect to see at least some GN, NP, and occasionally a SP&S or two.

[ericsp]

[quoteTankcars? No. San Francisco Bay and Salt Lake City both had large refineries by the 1920s, so there would be no need for gasoline, kerosene, or fuel oil movements between the two cities. The movements to points in between had probably already started to convert to truck by that point. I think there could have been some gasoline business to Reno, but SP would have had that, because it served the refineries at Azol and Richmond and WP didn't, and it had the industries at Reno and WP didn't. The amount of gasoline consumed in that era by towns such as Winnemucca was very small. Beyond that point, gasoline would be moving west from Salt Lake City, not east from Richmond. Chemicals scarcely existed in the West as a freight movement then due to the West's meager manufacturing base.

[DSchmitt]

Would there be any PFE cars? WP was a member of PFE into the 1960's. There were WP owned woodenn reefers in the PFE fleet.

[johncolley]

How about "other" tank car loads, fuel oil/diesel, corn syrup, chemicals, etc. Oh, and I remember there was a tallow rendering works in Alameda that might have shipped some on WP. Although the Alameda Belt Line interchanged with SP at Fruitvale. I am sure I have seen tank cars in trains at Keddie and Portola.

[CFournier]

[V] I just wrote for 15 minutes a Thank you note to your helpfull replies but it disapeared from my dektop when i tried to join a picture of a WP train...!!!
I'll come back to you after my lunch...
Chris.

[DSchmitt]

Since the PFE cars were in a fleet controlled by PFE, not directly by the individual railroads UP/SP, and WP. Would PFE cars would appear on the WP, in greater numbers or lesser numbers than the WP contribution to the fleet would indicate?

[CFournier]

Mark,
Utah was and still is a major producer of potash, used for fertilizer .
There is a mine near Moab (on Potash road!) that was served by DRGW I think. Am I right?
They must have sent some into California?
Chris.

[CFournier]

Mark,
I subscribe to Trains mag and I didnt realized I was talking to the writer of the article I was refering to with my Potash mine input !!!
By the way I personally saw the mine wich is near the Colorado river, close to Canyonlands Nat.Park, in 1996, when I was visiting the Southwest for the first time.
It was'nt very big...
Chris.

[Anonymous]

The posting by Mr. Hemphill regarding the "Behavior" of the freight on the WP in this thread is probably the best one I have ever seen on these forums. I stand in awe. It was so well written.

Too bad no one could give a similar short list on the Western Maryland. Or any of the eastern railroads.

[DSchmitt]

Not WP and not 1950's, but this link lists the make-up of some Santa Fe trains in 1967/68. There is other inteesting info on the site.

http://www.carrtracks.com/sfconsst.htm

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

The posting by Mr. Hemphill regarding the "Behavior" of the freight on the WP in this thread is probably the best one I have ever seen on these forums. I stand in awe. It was so well written.

HighIron2003ar,
I second your motion ! It would be nice if Bergie could give him some sort of informal award, both in recognition and to encourage others to follow his example.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[jwar]

M.W Hemphill, my hat is off to you...great work

Remembering back to 1963 the WP cattle pens in occasional use next to the Oroville roundhouse. Just thinking there had to be more cattle loads in the fifteys before trucks took over. Also telephone pole loads out of Koppers heading up the canyon.

[CFournier]

Mr Mark Hemphill,
Thank you again for the incredibly interesting and usefull infos you provided in answering my post ! I had to print that answer on paper and i still can't believe how lucky I was that you happen to read and answer it. You made my day!
I can see now that I assumed wrongly that I could find SP cars in a WP train...
Chris.

[ericsp]

Do you know how many tankcars Dow's Pittsburg, CA. plant sent out to the WP back then? According to Dow's website it is "the largest integrated chemical manufacturing complex of its kind on the west coast." When I was up there it looked like part of it was abandoned, so it was probably larger back in the fifties. It looks like currently only BNSF has access to it. From looking at maps (not known for railroad accuracy) it looks like SN and SP might have had access to it. It seems like they "made" chlorine, sodium hydroxide, and hydrochloric acid. These are all fairly common chemicals and I cannot think of any plants that make these in Utah or northern Nevada. I doubt there would be large blocks of Dow's tankcars frequently, however, there may have been a couple frequently and maybe large blocks occasionally.

Maybe there could also be the occasional tankcar of ammonia to farm supply places, ice plants, and cold storage plants.