i work in an industrial area that has rail service. I've noticed that entire strings of freight cars have been on some of these sidings for months Without having been moved. What is the average time a freight car should be on a siding? And, do the industries served pay a daily or such rate for the cars? How does all of this work? What are the policies?
Jim (with a nod to Mies Van Der Rohe)
There is a per diem charge for cars from other owners that railroads must pay. Who ever is in possession of the car at a certain time of day pays the fee. I’m sure there are some exceptions however. Most cars are unloaded the day they arrive and the empties might be removed the next day or maybe even later that day in some high volume industries. Cars that sit around for months might be seasonal or they might be surplus.
up831 i work in an industrial area that has rail service. I've noticed that entire strings of freight cars have been on some of these sidings for months Without having been moved. What is the average time a freight car should be on a siding?
i work in an industrial area that has rail service. I've noticed that entire strings of freight cars have been on some of these sidings for months Without having been moved. What is the average time a freight car should be on a siding?
There is no real meaningful number to answer that question.
There are a whole lot of things that can influence this.
If the cars are shipments to or from an industry in cars that are not leased by the company then the company has 24 hrs to load and 48 hrs to unload the car from the time it was spotted at the industry. If it exceeds theose times the company is charged "demurrage" which is a daily rate. If the cars were bunched or there was some other railroad cause why the cars could not be loaded or unloaded they can get relief. If they order too many cars and they all can fit on the industry's track then the railroad has to put them "off spot" (constructively placed) and the demurrage clock starts then. On the other hand if the railroad is putting railroad owned cars on the siding to hold them for future car orders, then they could be there for days, weeks, months, years, until somebody needs them.
If they are private cars on a privately owned or leased track there are no demurrge charges and the the cars can sit there as long as the car owners will let them.
If they are foreign railroad cars then the railroad is charged an hourly rate called car hire (which replaced "per diem") whether the car is loaded or unloaded unless the car is part of some pool that provides for car hire relief.
TTX owned cars may be stored on the participating railroads until they are needed.
During the recession and home building collapse several years ago there were branch lines with strings of cars literally miles long that sat for years until the economy warmed up again. Many times seasonally loaded cars (for example grain boxcars or covered hoppers) may sit for several months until they are needed for the next loading season.
Without knowing exactly what the cars are doing on the sidings, who owns the cars and who owns the track, it isn't really possible to say how long they should be there and what charges apply.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
As started the cars are most likely being stored out of service.
Some exceptions a company that owns or leases the cars may park them on their spur and just unload them as the need for the product in them is needed, or they may use them for additional storage capacity.
Years ago I saw two cars in a field at the end of a disused branch line. I think they were chemical tank cars (don't remember) They were there for several years.. Perodically a truck parked next to them with a hose from the outlet of one of the cars to a tank on the truck.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Usually cars that sit for months are earning money for the rails they are being stored on. Our local RR museum, the Monticello RR Museum, has extra trackage it currently devotes to storing excess ADM tank cars. Years ago it was someone's covered hoppers. I'm sure it helps them make budget.
The shortline that owns the old Rio Grande San Luis Valley lines has a scrapper that is an industry. Miles long strings of cars await their fate and are then replaced by others that are then made into scrap steel. Not sure if they pay storage or not on a per car basis, as there is a LOT of unused track out there and basically no other reason now for a train, so they may have some other contractural arrangement in that special case.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Where I work we will rent box cars and tank cars for extra storage when business is very good. We get the benifit of space without investing in additional buildings or tankage.
I can recall a factory that made plastic bags would often let their center flow covered hoppers sit at their siding for quite a while often a full week - presumably they were being used as temporary storage. Those cars were privately owned, not railroad owned I should add.
Dave Nelson
dehusman During the recession and home building collapse several years ago there were branch lines with strings of cars literally miles long that sat for years until the economy warmed up again. Many times seasonally loaded cars (for example grain boxcars or covered hoppers) may sit for several months until they are needed for the next loading season.
Some years back, scrap steel prices were climbing pretty fast. All the spare track in my neck of the woods was full of gondolas full of scrap steel. Turns out the local mill had determined the cost of storing loaded gons on the neighboring regional's trackage cost less than buying steel when they had the on-site storage capacity. I think they eventually got burned by it.
Lots of traffic is seasonal and as a result there will be times of the year when a railroad has a surplus of a particular car type. Generally they don't like to store them in yards long term so they will find a suitable siding whereever they can. I've seen strings of hopper cars parked on a siding out in the middle of nowhere.
Back in 1980 when I was a TV reporter, I often covered local city council meetings. City manager had an item on his report, proposing city keep loaded chlorine tank cars at city water purification plant as "storage on wheels" as chlorine was used. City would pay demurrage on car rather than having to pump it out to their own tank. Tank car usually would be replaced by loaded tank before it was released. (You can see I was thinking about model rail operations even while sitting through long meetings...)
dknelson I can recall a factory that made plastic bags would often let their center flow covered hoppers sit at their siding for quite a while often a full week - presumably they were being used as temporary storage. Those cars were privately owned, not railroad owned I should add. Dave Nelson
Storage in transit is common for plastic pellets. There are yards in Texas (and perhaps elsewhere) built just for that purpose.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
Hi,
I've worked at a number of refineries and of course got familiar with the train operations (even got some loco rides). As previously stated, most cars are in and out quickly as "time is money".
However, sometimes for various reasons they are held for longer periods. I especially recall two 50 ft. boxcars at the Beaumont Tx refinery that were used for storage overflow of 2000 lb wax blocks on pallets. The refinery found it beneficial to pay for the cars rather than build an additional storage area.
BTW, driving a forklift into a box car can be extremely noisy - even with the mandated ear protection!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Storage in transit (SIT) would not be at a customer. It is a service for the manufacturer so they can warehouse their pellets enroute to a customer. Once the pellets arrive at the customer they are CP'd (constructively placed) and if the customer has a private or leased track the privately owned cars would not accrue demurrage. But that isn't SIT.
In a SIT facility the railroad or third party owns tracks, they lease the track on a footage basis to the chemical manufacturers, the manufacturers bill their cars to the SIT facility. Then as the chemical company gets orders for the pellets, they bill the cars out of the SIT yard and the railroad or third party switch the released cars out of the yard and the railroad switches them into trains for their destinations.
Here is part of a SIT yard at Spring, TX. Every night a switcher digs 50-75 cars out of the 1000 cars in the yard and sends them on their way. This is the very definition of "cherry picking" since the outbound cars will be scattered more or less randomly around the yard.
Sometimes I think the railroad just loses track of them. About 10 years ago I saw an old PRR boxcar just rusting away quietly on a weedy siding.
Enjoy
Paul
IRONROOSTERSometimes I think the railroad just loses track of them. About 10 years ago I saw an old PRR boxcar just rusting away quietly on a weedy siding.
I think you're right.
I saw a Great Northern boxcar in Isleton CA in the mid 1970's. Several years after the Southern Pacific quit running to Isleton in 1971.
And, some railroads will lease space on unused sidings and spurs, just so that other companies and lines can store unneeded railcars, for a fee, so as to still turn profit on a otherwise unprofitable spot on the line. Could last from weeks to months, to years.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.