gmpullman This tender happens to have an L1s on it's drawbar (1635) but I don't see any reason that a similar tender wasn't used on an I1. As Tom mentioned, the doghouse is snug against the coal slope sheet. It seems to take up a full one-third of the deck space. PRR did quite a bit of tender swapping throughout the 'fifties. I'll see if I can find the Keystone that has more tender information. Regards, Ed
This tender happens to have an L1s on it's drawbar (1635) but I don't see any reason that a similar tender wasn't used on an I1.
As Tom mentioned, the doghouse is snug against the coal slope sheet. It seems to take up a full one-third of the deck space.
PRR did quite a bit of tender swapping throughout the 'fifties. I'll see if I can find the Keystone that has more tender information.
Regards, Ed
A side note: During my digging, I came upon a picture of PRR 4414 with a short tender in 1955, and a couple other pics of that engine in 1956 or '57 with a coast-to-coast tender. I therefore have to conclude that you're right, they moved tenders around a good deal.
Last, I'd ask the Pennsy employees I know about this matter, but two of them are dead, and the third, while alive, likely wouldn't remember anything about steam locomotives because he worked in the PRR's legal department.
The doghouse on M1b 6755's tender is the earlier, smaller version, but it doesn't have the overhead canopy, which may make it look like the later version. I put an aftermarket large doghouse on a PFM I1s small tender, in place of the original. I butted it up against the rear coal board. Definitive photographic evidence was hard to find. It looked to me like the doghouse had the same sloped front as found on other "modern" PRR doghouses, but I never could be 100% certain because I never found a photo that showed it clearly enough to answer the question beyond doubt.
I don't think those large doghouses were recycled from Q2's because the first Q2 wasn't scrapped until 1952, and most of them lasted into 1955-56. If they wanted to use anything from the Q2's to reequip I1sa's, they probably would have just used the entire Q2 tender, rather than put the new doghouse on a much older and smaller tank. But by the time the Q2's were scrapped, most of the small I1sa tenders had been modified already. I don't have retirement dates for M1/M1a/M1b or J1/J1a engines that also had these large doghouses on their tenders but I tend to believe the large doghouses on the small I1sa tenders were newly fabricated for the purpose.
Tom
I spent a lot of the day looking for pics online and in various books. I found pics of 3 engines with the modernized doghouses: 4398, 4459, and 4511 in a book I forgot I owned. I can't tell if the back wall of the doghouses were totally flush with the back wall of the coal bins, or if there was a gap between them (if they recycled the doghouses from Q2's on these engines, it's likely there was a gap, unless shop workers cut them down to fit the tenders better).
EDIT: This eBay link shows you the kind of doghouse I'm talking about:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRR-2-10-0-4363-5x7-color-photo-/401038883896?hash=item5d5fc7bc38:g:UDIAAOSwHjNWBsti
The M1b, (#6755), preserved at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, at Strasburg, appears to have a streamlined dogbox on the tender.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2604407
For years the locomotive sat outdoors at the front of the museum, recent photos, indicate that the loco has been relocated to the "circle" surrounding the turntable.
I second "Brakie"'s comments about drafty and cold. When I hired, the PRR had been liberated from steam power for less than ten years, and many of my co-workers still remembered the environment during the steam era. Leading the list of unfavorable work locations were the dog houses on tenders, steam in general, and working on P5 Boxcab electrics, all of which were gone by my time.
ACYDoes anybody know whether any of the PRR modern streamlined doghouses exist in preservation? I can't think of any. Tom
Tom,None that I can recall..I do know the dog houses was steam heated,drafty and uncomfortable.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
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Until the early 1920's, the PRR numbered most of its locomotives according to Divisional/Regional assignments, rather than by class and type. Some number series were reserved for the parent road, but many engines were numbered in series reserved for the specific PRR line on which they operated. When a number was vacated due to a renumbering or retirement of a loco, the old number became available for use by a new locomotive on the relevant PRR line, regardless of class. PRR's first 123 I1s 2-10-0's were built by Juniata Shops in 1916-19, and given various scattered numbers in the parent road's series 30-6340. Then the 475 subsequent I1s' delivered by Baldwin in 1922-23 were delivered with consecutive numbers 4225-4699. Similarly, early G5s 4-6-0's and K4s 4-6-2's carried scattered numbers, while later engines of the same classes carried consecutive numbers in large blocks.
PRR began installing doghouses on mainline freight engines in the late 1930's. The earliest ones were square, and evidently built of wood. Model examples are on the PFM I1s, the WSM N2sa, WSM M1a, and probably others. By the 1940's, the standard small steel design had evolved, and the wooden ones began to be replaced. Around WWII, the larger "streamlined" version began to appear. All of these variants appeared on I1s/I1sa tenders, whether the tender was long or short. I'm unaware of any comprehensive list. Your best bet is to refer to photos.
I'm unable to address questions about detail differences such as slope angle of the front wall, etc. Does anybody know whether any of the PRR modern streamlined doghouses exist in preservation? I can't think of any.
(edited)
PRR PRO is not a general information Yahoo Group, they work on specific projects and any other questions regarding the PRR are Taboo.
You would probably want to go to the PRR - Modeling Group as the PRR - Talk group has been disbanded into it.
Rick J
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BRAKIE ndbprr You need to join prrpro on yahoo where the experts hang out to get your answers. The only real experts is those that worked on the PRR and rode in those contraptions . Everybody else is second guessing. Those dog houses was the modern style and offered a tad more room then the older outhouse on the tender types that offered very little space to sit.. PRR didn't use a common numbering series like most roads but,played the hopscotch numbering game.
ndbprr You need to join prrpro on yahoo where the experts hang out to get your answers.
The only real experts is those that worked on the PRR and rode in those contraptions . Everybody else is second guessing.
Those dog houses was the modern style and offered a tad more room then the older outhouse on the tender types that offered very little space to sit..
PRR didn't use a common numbering series like most roads but,played the hopscotch numbering game.
ndbprrYou need to join prrpro on yahoo where the experts hang out to get your answers.
I was going through my copy of Philip Hastings' book on the PRR when I saw a couple pics of a couple I1's with short tenders that had brakeman's doghouses similar to those found on c poo ast-to-coast tenders, but they seemed different. We're these doghouses identical to the ones used on Q's, J's, and other engines that used coast-to-coast tenders, or were there differences in the size of the doghouses or the angle between the roof, side sheets and rear sheet? Also, does anyone know the road numbers of any of the engines that had short tenders with these unique doghouses? One of Hastings' pics shows the road number, but I can't make it out. Thank you for any help you can provide.