I've seen a lot of old photos of depots with a semiphore signal next to the building. What exactly was this used for, and did all depots have it?
Also, what kind of structure would be used at a flagstop? Would it be the same as a depot, or something simpler? How would the trains be flagged down?
Ray DunakinAlso, what kind of structure would be used at a flagstop?
http://scotlawrence.smugmug.com/Other/GrizzlyFlats/buildings-structures-1893/872361952_TkRdC-O.jpg
http://www.brewerplans.com/structures.htm
http://www.wplives.org/sn/shelters.html
https://archive.org/stream/buildingsstructu00berg#page/n6/mode/1up
http://www.maparailroadhist.org/stations/laurelbrook.htm
http://www.arrts-arrchives.com/plawn.html
http://www.santacruztrains.com/2012_08_01_archive.html
Ray Dunakin How would the trains be flagged down?
http://www.octrr.org/Picturepages/flagging_down_the_train.htm
http://northernhoot.com/end-line-eliminating-passenger-rail-service-northern-ontario/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_cJp3idfaw
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Ray Dunakin I've seen a lot of old photos of depots with a semiphore signal next to the building. What exactly was this used for, and did all depots have it?
In most cases that would be a train order signal. Some (but not all ) stations had a train order office with a train order operator who would recieve instructions and train orders from the dispatcher by telegraph or phone and then write out train orders which would be delivered to the passing trains. The signal told the trains they had to get a clearance/train orders before leaving that station.
In some cases that signal could also be used as a manual block signal. If you look at the pattern of the end of the semaphore flag and stripes on it you will see they vary for signals on the same railroads. That's how crews knew which signal was which from a distance.
In later years the semaphores were replaced with color lights.
It could be anything from a shelter to a full depot. Most flagstops were smaller locations so had less facilities.
The shelter would have a flag in it for the passengers to use to signal the train crews or there might have been a semaphore signal (with a different shaped blade) to signal the trains. Later trains would have used a color light. In the late 1970's when I rode the SEPTA Philadelphia & Western Line, they had a blue flag stop signal at Gulph Mills I had to turn on to have the car pick me up.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Algoma Central had small shelters which contained a flag.
And if you were out along the line somewhere, you could place a piece of white birch bark over the rail to signal the train to stop and pick you up.
Charlie
Bob Schuknecht Algoma Central had small shelters which contained a flag.
Bob,
I didn't see this part of things, but saw the results. yes, the train does stop in the seeming middle of nowhere on the AC to pick up people. The wife and I rode the line all the way to Hearst and back the next day.
Charlie,
The birch bark may very well work, too, on the south end of the line. By the time you get to Hearst, the trees are getting puny and almost all conifers, so you might have to pack in the bark
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
While not universal, the use of green and white to signal flag stop goes back to the 1800's.
A regular station with an operator might be a flag stop if it was not a scheduled stop in the timetable. Hence, the operator would make arrangements to have the train stop either with a flag (or lantern at night), on signal or having arranged to have the stop communicated to train crew ahead of time.
A train order signal generally would look a little different than a 'regular' signal, like a block or interlocking signal on the rail line. For example, a railroad that used upper-quadrant semaphores for block signals might use lower-quadrant signals as train order signals. Some railroads that used color light signals tipped the train order signal 90 degrees so that instead of having red over yellow over green, it might have red on the right, yellow in the middle, and green on the right.
Normally, a green "proceed" train order signal would mean there are no orders to be picked up. Yellow would indicate there were orders to be picked up 'on the fly' - hooped up to the engine crew and caboose crew without stopping the train. Red would mean the train would have to stop, often because the engineer and conductor had to pick up orders that had to be signed by them to verify they received, read and understood the orders.
There are a couple variations on how train order signals worked, so there is some flexibility.
A train order signal actually means a train must obtain a clearance, not necessarily a train order. A train can get a clearance with or without orders.
Some train order signals were normally at red and the operator changed them to green (or yellow) when the train approached the station. Some train order signals were normally green and the operator changed them to yellow or red when he had orders for trains in that direction.
Some railroads used just red and green train order signals. Green meant no clearance necessary, red meant the train had to get a clearance. On those roads yellow was a special "calling on" order to advance a train being held up to the train order office to receive a clearance/orders.
As Stix previously mentioned, some road used green for no clearance, yellow for form 19 and and red for form 31 (train crew had to sign for the orders). In any case if the train order signal was not green and the orders/clearance was not where they could be picked up on the fly the train would have to stop and obtain a clearance/order.
Dave makes some good points about train order signals. We are often indoctrinated in the model railroad press that yellow was for a form 19 order (the train would have to stop and the orders signed.) But many (but not all) roads stopped using a form 19 by the late steam era. My road, the Wabash, in later years just used the green and red (or veritcal and horizontal with semaphore blades) and train orders were picked up on they fly with a red. And if the operator did not have orders in manual block territory, he (or she) would have to flip the signal from red to green so the engineer could see it.
Victor A. Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana
The book, Santa Fe ...Steel Rails Through California by Donald Duke & Stan Kistler, 1963, Golden West Books, San Marino, Cal. 184 p. has photos of a woman at a Santa Fe depot waving the white flag to stop a train to ride. So that's somewhere in California.
I remember CN had it on their Montreal - Deux Montagnes commuter train line up until 1995 when the line was modernized. The messages where given at a midway station (Val-Royal) on the 62KM line, where the double line changed to single and the north bound train had to wait for the south bound one to arrive at the double tracks at the depot. That was the last CN passenger service, after that all became automatic with the modernized AMT commuter line and it became history. Missed all of that today, it was fun to see this taking place. I might have photos somewhere will check it out.