I am building a diesel maintenance area on my layout and there will be a fuel and sand replenishment track. My question is this - how do railroads get the diesel fuel to the tracks? Do they have tank cars supply them from nearby? Or does it come via pipeline or how? Thank you.
Ted
I'll bet the words "that depends" apply.
BUT
I was just at the BNSF yard in Klamath Falls. Fuel is brought in in tank cars. It is unloaded and piped underground to storage tanks a couple of hundred feet away. Those storage tanks are then piped underground to the fueling area.
Don't forget that, at the tanks, although the fuel is delivered via underground piping, it comes out of the ground before it attaches to the tanks. Ya don't just stick a tank on the ground.
I'd recommend studying some satellite views of your favorite places.
Ed
I agree with the "it depends"
Depending on the era and size of the facilility, it could be anything from a fixed facllity or a tank truck from the local fuel dealer.
Walthers makes a fueling facility kithttp://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2908
This is the kit I built for the Boothbay Railway Village layout; the fuel tank is out of sight behind the BAR F3s:
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Again-"it depends"--and like a lot of railroad stuff, can be very creative. I've seen articles in MR where a siding with tank car hookups and a little shed for the pump to get it to the fuel cranes. I think some roads may have used the setups they'd used for delivering Bunker C to oil-burning steam locos: a tank car body on a timber stand, but they still had to pump the tarlike crude oil from a Company Service tank car, which probably had heating coils in it to thin it out enough to pump into the elevated tank--which also had the heating pipes. I never studied them enough to be any kind of expert, but I can imagineer such a facility with a little boiler in a shed, whose steam also ran the fueling pumps.
The Soo Line, in my third home town of Rhinelander, WI, repurposed the elevated coal deliverey track in front of which the coal tower sat (it's surprising how many coal delivery tracks there were, which probably probably eliminated the danger of water collecting in the delivery pit). They merely park their Company Service diesel fuel tank cars up on it and pump it from them into the motive power fuel tanks. I personally think it's neat for a small engine terminal, plus it shows some history!
Deano
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
theodorefiskMy question is this - how do railroads get the diesel fuel to the tracks? Do they have tank cars supply them from nearby?
Doesn't get any simpler than this:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption
Actually, quite a fascinating photo, lots of neat details. (It looks like there's an air hose to the dome of the tank to pressurize the tank a bit)
For many years at the New York Central fueling facility at Collinwood, Ohio, there were three steam locomotive tenders from Mohawks, that were converted to diesel fuel storage. It was not until stricter EPA regulations came along that a dedicated tank, with a containment dike, was built.
As others have said, it depends — on era, volume of traffic, size of area available to devote to fueling, etc.
Good Luck, Ed
Not the best photo, but fuel and sand available here:
The storage tanks were behind me and to my left when I took the photo, and had a separate track where tankcars were spotted when the tanks needed refilling. If you're pressed for real estate, the tanks could be underground or "elsewhere", with the tankcars brought in on the service track or also spotted "elsewhere".You can model the fueling equipment or simply add an enclosed locker like the one shown.
Wayne
BNSF Mandan. Google BNSF Mandan Fuel Spill...
Anyway, there were underground tanks there, and apparently they leaked, somewhat like a seive. Got into the drinking water... Yadda Yadda Yadda.
The railroad of course denied that it was their fuel (Elephant in the room), but spent untold millions in remediation. Now the tanks are above ground., as for the supply of fuel, There is a refinery in Mandan (they do not seem to have any problems with oil spills), and it is likely that product is simply piped from the refinery to the rail terminal.
Tanks are now above ground with proper enclosures.
Tanks underground were a problem all across North Dakota, probably all across the country, for word came from on high (state, fed, God... I do not remember) that old tanks had to be replaced or otherwise removed from service. At this time many service stations just quit the business, some dug up every thing and while still having underground tanks, were in effect a tank within a tank. There is human access to the tanks, inside and out, and are subject to the most intense inspections.
Gasoline, nah... I dont sell that anymore, would you like to buy some flowers?
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
All of the larger engine terminals I worked at, had their fuel oil delivered to their storage tanks by tank truck. At smaller terminals, fuel was delivered directly to the locomotives by tank truck, either a company service truck (which also carried sand and lube oil) or vendor truck.
I suppose the practice varied by location and railroad.
Good evening and thank you all for your replies and the pictures. I will make a more modern facility, a small tank farm, with a siding with tank cars. I don't model any set prototype as I run stacktrains & coal unit trains with modern hi horsepower diesels, small freights with a Rutland Rs3 and a caboose on the rear, just a conglomeration of trains that suit my tastes. So thanks again.
I might be wrong but nowadays with EPA reg's etc I think a lot of the fuel is just delivered by tuck right to the locomotive.
Railroads are taking enough heat over tank car leaks spill etc of customer product. Why add fuel to the fire (pun Intended) by having to store themselves.
Joe Staten Island West
It all depends on the facility. Some get fuel by truck, some by piepline, some by rail car. The other factor is how is it being used and where is it coming from. For example if the facility is near a refinery, then a pipeline might be possible. If refinerys or large distribution centers are within 50 miles and the facility is small to medium then truck might be possible. If the facility is remote with fuel not truckable into the facility, then they might go with tank cars. In the modern world tank cars are the most costly solution for a railroad, pipe or truck is cheaper.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Conrail/NS in Enola Pennsylvania has three large storage tanks (150,000 gals + each, my guess) about 40' up on the nearby hillside of RT11/15. They are surrounded by a concrete berm about 5' high. The fuel is piped to the tanks and the tanks directly supply. the diesel terminal fuel pad.
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
Mark H - thank you. I am envisioning a tank farm and berm nearby the fuel pad. And it will be filled by tank cars, thereby giving my layout another 'customer' to switch loads and empties.
Hi! Oil....... one of my favorite subjects!
Yup, "it depends" - on the timeframe, location, usage, and other variables.
Some of the possibilities are:
- direct drawing from an adjacent tank car
- having tankage nearby that is supplied from tank cars - or in larger installations by a pipeline (from local oil company terminal)
- supply could also come from barges, but that would limit the location to the east coast or the Mississippi river complex.
- of course tanktrucks from the local oil terminal could feed your tanks, but that would usually be for smaller installations.
Lots of possibilities, some will make more sense than others for your situation, but all will prove to be an interesting layout sight!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
BroadwayLion BNSF Mandan. Google BNSF Mandan Fuel Spill... Anyway, there were underground tanks there, and apparently they leaked, somewhat like a seive. Got into the drinking water... Yadda Yadda Yadda. The railroad of course denied that it was their fuel (Elephant in the room), but spent untold millions in remediation. Now the tanks are above ground., as for the supply of fuel, There is a refinery in Mandan (they do not seem to have any problems with oil spills), and it is likely that product is simply piped from the refinery to the rail terminal. Tanks are now above ground with proper enclosures. Tanks underground were a problem all across North Dakota, probably all across the country, for word came from on high (state, fed, God... I do not remember) that old tanks had to be replaced or otherwise removed from service. At this time many service stations just quit the business, some dug up every thing and while still having underground tanks, were in effect a tank within a tank. There is human access to the tanks, inside and out, and are subject to the most intense inspections. Gasoline, nah... I dont sell that anymore, would you like to buy some flowers? ROAR
From back in 1986, at least in Ohio anyway, under federal regulations required all underground storage tanks (UST's), if kept under ground, to be converted from steel (then the standard) to fiberglas. There is a whole protocol governing excavation, determining any leakage, disposal of old tank and any contaminated soil, and, if the soil was contaminated, the depth of that contamination and if any groundwater was contaminated as well. Based on these findings, recommendations are made for mitigation and/or remedediation. As an environmental consultant, I have done the UST site closure assessments on such sites. All above ground storage tanks were, at that time, required to have the proper enclosures (dikes, fences, emergency shutoff valves, etc.).
Anyway, back to the "it depends" part. If you're modeling past the mid 1980's above ground storage tanks should have the above required enclosures. And, as has been mentioned, if you're "real estate challenged", you can make it an underground tank.
Back in the late 60's and on up until after the merger in 1968 the PRR had a barge dock on the Mississippi river at E St Louis. There were a couple of large above ground tanks the fuel was pumped into and a tank car loading rack at the site.
We are talking about around a million gallons of fuel oil here. Cars were loaded and sent out to engine terminals all over that end of the railroad. Some went out by truck. The nearby Rose Lake yard had a large above ground trank that supplied the engine terminal there. In later years the fuel was trucked from the large storage tanks on the river front to the engine terminal.
Handling this much fuel and considering that a tank truck only held about 8000 gallons, a lot of the number 2 diesel wound up in area truck stops at a bargain price. It was never missed. I was never involved in hijacking the fuel oil but I know several who were.
Charlie
All the answers were great and very helpful. I have decided to build a four car spot with a small tank farm on my layout. It will be near my bulk transload facility and intermodal strip tracks so using the underground piping idea to get the fuel over to the fuel track several hundred feet away. I tried to put it in the locomotive servicing area, but there wasn't quite enough room.
Again thank you all.
A side note to underground tanks:
1980-ish, a gas station in Rapid City, SD, stopped selling fuel. The underground tank was pumped until the suction came up nothing but air.
Then the rains came. The previously slightly moist soil became saturated. When the differential displacement became sufficient, the empty tank pulled the 'nuclear sub surfacing at the North Pole' maneuver, rising through the asphalt and creating a mess of bent and twisted pipe.
Shortly thereafter the City Council put out the word that all underground tanks that were to be abandoned in place had to be filled with concrete...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with above-ground tanks)