I would say you have a typical arrangement, though on the RRs that I model and study the mail storage cars (and any express or baggage cars) were usually behind the RPO (which was the very first car). Yes, you want the food service cars btw the coaches and sleepers as you don't want everyone walking through the sleepers to get to any other part of the train. For the same reason, the RPO and storage mail was segregated from the rest of the train. I have a similar train I'm modeling though it doesn't have any food service as it is a night train and I have the same configuration except my baggage cars (for mail or express) are behind the RPO.
If a train had to make run back in the opposite direction with the same consist and there were no turning facilities or management didn't want to switch it, (more common in later years), the head end cars might be on the end of the train headed back to the origin point. Believe it or not, I've seen that with the Empire Builder in the 1960s-70s.
Victor A. Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana
wjstix BTW another (perhaps more common) reason for sleepers and other first class cars to be towards the back is they had a better ride back there, farther from the steam engine's smoke and noise.
BTW another (perhaps more common) reason for sleepers and other first class cars to be towards the back is they had a better ride back there, farther from the steam engine's smoke and noise.
I wonder if that really mattered back in the day when noise and smoke was common?
I wish I was alive back in the glory days of passenger trains.Must have been a sight to behold.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
wjstixRPO/Baggage cars
Some times there would be REA express cars, baggage cars used for mail storage,working storage (for the RPO),baggage/baggage express and then the train make up like you said.Some roads included a dome car and snack car.
Back in the hey day of passenger trains 15-20 cars with 4-6-4s or 4-8-4s was common.A shiny A-B-B-A set of E3s or E7s was seen as well..
General order for passenger cars would be:
RPO/Baggage cars
Combines/Coaches
Diner
Sleepers (Pullmans*)
Observation
On daytime trains, you could have one or more parlor cars taking the place of the sleepers as first-class cars.
*Although they did own and operate diners, parlor cars etc., Pullman primarilly owned and operated sleepers. In the steam era, "Pullman" and "Sleeping Car" were pretty much interchangeable terms. After WW2, Pullman was split up, so many railroads bought their own sleepers, but hired Pullman Co. to operate them.
Lots of exceptions to the general rules. The old Seaboard Air Line Silver Meteor carried its sleepers ahead of the coaches, but that was unusual. As mentioned, a diner would usually separate the coaches from the sleepers. It was often the case that the most expensive rooms were located in positions most convenient to other services. They would often be placed close to the diner, or they might be in a rear end observation car that included bar/lounge service.
I would suggest adding a diner to your consist and placing it between the coach and sleeper section (kitchen end leading in most cases). Then your standard Pullman sleeper, then your two duplex sleepers.
Tom
I throw this in..Some times the sleepers and Pullmans would be on the end of the train..
Reason?
Some times sleepers and Pullmans would be switched out enroute at major stations and placed on other trains headed toward other distentions..
A example.A St.Louis bound train may have Sleepers and Pullmans bound for Chicago and these cars would be switched out at(say) Cincinnati,Ohio and added to the Chicago bound train.If there was a layover then electric power and steam would be connected to these cars for lights and heat (if needed).
I can give you a few general pointers with the caveat that there were always exceptions to the usual consist arrangements—especially considering the vast number of passenger trains that were operated in a given 24 hour period in that era.
As you have pointed out there was frequently a mail storage car on either side of the working R.P.O. where the sealed bags of mail could be "worked" then passed through as sorted mail and kept in the second mail storage car.
There were also sealed mail cars and express cars that had bulk packages, newspapers sometimes perishables like fresh flowers, citrus fruits, meats and milk. These cars would remain sealed until arriving at their designated terminal. Many of the "premier" trains (extra fare) did not handle any of this kind of express and usually had only limited RPO traffic in order to keep delays to a minimum.
Normally coaches were handled at the forward part of the train as well. If there was any local traffic these passengers could detrain or board as the "head-end" was being serviced i.e. engine fueled and watered, mail and express transloaded, etc. Frequently the short-haul passengers were in forward coaches and long-haul passengers closer to the middle of the train. In many cases the diner was the dividing point between the coach and Pullman passenger occupancy. I have seen a few cases, Santa Fe for one, where there was a velvet rope across the passage with a sign reading "Pullman Passengers Only Beyond This Point" and there was usually a sign and a call button. The sign would read "This car is for Pullman Passengers Only, If Door Is Locked, Ring For Porter"
Sometimes a lounge car would be behind the diner. Coach passengers could use it but it was generally reserved for Pullman passengers. The extra-fare, all Pullman trains would perhaps have three lounges—forward, mid train next to the diner(s) and in the observation car as well.
You mention "duplex" sleepers and these are usually lightweight cars like the PRR Creek series. The bedrooms were crosswise with the aisle down one side. The Slumbercoach had duplex rooms lengthwise and an aisle in the center of the car.
Pullman had "Tourist" sleepers that were heavyweight construction and these were a forerunner of the duplex cars. I believe they were more common in the west on the U.P., Santa Fe and maybe S.P.
Finally, there may have been an observation lounge car bringing up the rear but usually these were reserved for the "premium" trains. More often than not, there may have been an additional coach or two or even a few express or baggage cars that could be conveniently switched out mid-journey.
Another thing to consider when making up passenger consists is the fact that the train may be broken up or added to during its run. For instance, at Albany the Boston section will be cut-off and run as a separate train while the main train proceeds to New York City. This is still done in Amtrak practice. Many trains had the diner cut off mid-run and returned on another train.
So, with what you have to work with I would suggest the mail storage car first, the RPO next followed by any coach you may have then the sleeping cars toward the rear. Note that the mail storage car is not considered an R.P.O. but may be lettered U.S. Mail on the exterior of the car.
Again, I'm going by "typical" practise here and there were always exceptions based on the railroad, the season, the era and equipment available. As new cars were delivered, the "hand-me-downs" were delegated to lesser trains until the very oldest equipment was either sent to M-of-W service or sold or scrapped.
Good Luck, Ed
Got another one for the forums: I am working with a few HW (standard) passenger cars for a museum diorama. The cars in question are as follows: a storage RPO car, a working RPO car, a Pullman car, a coach car and 2 duplex sleepers. What would the correct arrangement for the cars? I do seem to recall that the storage RPO goes in front of the working RPO (as no one other than postal employees had access to those cars), but other than that, I am not completely sure. My best guess would be the storage RPO, the working RPO, the Pullman car, the coach car and then the sleepers. If that is not the correct arrangement, please advise what the proper arrangement would be.
Thank you in advance for any assistance the forums can provide.