Tender Frames

[dknelson]

The 1930 Locomotive Cyclopedia has a section on tender frames with many good drawings and photos.  My copy is a 1985 Newton Gregg reprint.  Whether it is available on Google Books (often a very good search source for images - don't just rely on Google Images per se) I do not know.

At the risk of grossly oversimplifying, tender frames seemed to follow one of two basic styles.  Many of the frames look rather like flatcar frames, particularly those built by Commonwealth, in that rather than a heavy center sill with bolsters to the sides, the frame might have four equal sized heavy sills: one at each side and at the ends and two interior but not at the center: a grid.  Two bolsters for trucks and two supporting bolsters.  Rectangular tender tank frames looked a bit different than Cylindrical tank frames of course.

The frames for the Walthers and P2K 53'6" flatcars rather resemble those tender frames in general outline, but of even thickness, not shaped like a GSC flatcar side.

But the '30 Cyc also shows tender frames with a heavy two piece center sill, rather like the fishbelly center sill in the old Silver Streak double sheathed boxcar kits (as opposed to say the usual Athearn plastic blue box boxcar frame). 

If Michael is determined to be prototypically accurate for the very caboose he seeks to build then he'll need to know not how tender frames were fabricated generically but how that particular locomotive tender's frame was fabricated.  And for that the best hope might be crawling under a preserved example with a flashlight and camera in hand. 

I respect those determined to be accurate but at some point a choice might have to be made to just go forward, in which case I am reminded of the quip that if you lay your track right, nobody need ever know about the accuracy of your underbody details.

Dave Nelson

 

[PJM20]

A good way to find any underframe any equipment is to look up photos of wrecks. All the carnage usually finds a few pieces of equipment on their side or upside down.

[pajrr]

The Lackawanna built many cabooses on old tender frames. These were designed to be used on coal trains in helper districts in order to protect the hind end crews. Here is a shot of one:  http://www.vistadome.com/trains/steamtown2/lackawanna889.jpg   You can see just how thick the frame is on these cabooses.

[DSchmitt]

Bayfield Transfer Railway

 

DSchmitt

Looks close to prototype  TCAB 990030 at  http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/milw/milw990030dsa.jpg

 

 

 

 

The model looks great, but that's not the point.  The channel hides the actual details of the underframe.  If I'm going to scratchbuild an underframe I want to scratchbuild a CORRECT underframe.

 

 

That is not what you said in your OP.

 

"Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Sunday, May 31, 2015 10:31 PM

in the June 2010 MR ws an article on scratchbuilding a Milwaukee Road transfer caboose.  The prototype was based in the frame of a tender from scrapped steam.

In the article the author used a modified Athearn boxcar underframe on a piece of styrene.  I hate to cast aspersions, but it looked awfully light to me.  On the other hand, I know nothing about steam engine tender frames.  Does anybody know how tender frames were actually built?

 

Michael Mornard"

 

It is a model.  It is a good representation of the prototype. If the author had  not described how he built it, you would not have known it is not "CORRECT"

While I admire the work of "prototype modelers" who model every detail, most of us are not in their league, and are willing to make compromises to make a useful model.

[7j43k]

Bayfield Transfer Railway

I spent over an hour on Google.  I got a lot of pictures of tenders, and a lot of pictures of locomotive frames, but not a single tender underframe.

 

 

 

And yet I found this one ten seconds after I entered my search terms:

 

 

I found more than one. 

Maybe you're not doing it right--notice my previously mentioned search terms.  With computers, you have to know the right questions to ask.

 

 

 

Ed

[Bayfield Transfer Railway]

7j43k

I did a search for:

locomotive "tender frame"

 

and got some nice pictures.  I'll bet you could learn a lot by varying the search terms.  Plus, I have a feeling that a lot of the photos are of locomtives being rebuilt.  So there might likely be more info on those sites.

 

 

Ed

 

 

I spent over an hour on Google.  I got a lot of pictures of tenders, and a lot of pictures of locomotive frames, but not a single tender underframe.

 

[Bayfield Transfer Railway]

DSchmitt

Looks close to prototype  TCAB 990030 at  http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/milw/milw990030dsa.jpg

 

The model looks great, but that's not the point.  The channel hides the actual details of the underframe.  If I'm going to scratchbuild an underframe I want to scratchbuild a CORRECT underframe.

[7j43k]

I did a search for:

locomotive "tender frame"

 

and got some nice pictures.  I'll bet you could learn a lot by varying the search terms.  Plus, I have a feeling that a lot of the photos are of locomtives being rebuilt.  So there might likely be more info on those sites.

 

 

Ed

[DSchmitt]

Looks close to prototype  TCAB 990030 at  http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/milw/milw990030dsa.jpg

[Bayfield Transfer Railway]

in the June 2010 MR ws an article on scratchbuilding a Milwaukee Road transfer caboose.  The prototype was based in the frame of a tender from scrapped steam.

In the article the author used a modified Athearn boxcar underframe on a piece of styrene.  I hate to cast aspersions, but it looked awfully light to me.  On the other hand, I know nothing about steam engine tender frames.  Does anybody know how tender frames were actually built?