Hi
I have a 2 level layout in HO depicting PRR and NYC. The layout has a freight yard and a turntable on each level. Trains are made up on the lower level and are delivered to the freight yard on the upper level where they then coal and water up, are turned and made ready to take another train back down to the lower level. The curves on the upper level are restrictive for my 2-10-4 and my 4-8-2, so those engines are prohibited to use certain tracks otherwise they will de-rail.
OK, here's the question..... on a real railroad I am aware there were restrictions on certain locos (which was yet another reason why diesels displaced steam). But what signs declared those restrictions to the engineers? And what paperwork told them what those restrictions were?
Thanks
Barry
Sometimes there were posted signs for special restrictions such as tight clearances. You might find a warning sign saying something like "No clearance for a man on top or side of car". B&O, for one, did post lineside speed limit signs. But most locomotive restrictions were not posted that way AFAIK. Restrictions on heavy equipment such as locomotives, heavy duty cranes, or heavy freight cars were generally included in the Divisional Employee Timetable. On the PRR, most employee timetables included charts that showed two major groups of engines: classes B, C, E, G and H were lighter and could be operated almost anywhere on the system, with exceptions noted. Classes I, J, K, L, M, N, Q, S, and T, and all locos having tender capacities greater than 15,000 gallons, with 6 wheel trucks, were usually considered main line engines, and could operate on main lines. Exceptions, such as L1s authorized to operate on certain lighter trackage, were indicated in the charts and/or in separate paragraphs covering close clearances, etc. B&O employee timetables would show restrictions for curves by giving a specific note ending with "...account of curvature."
Curve restrictions were generally indicated by a prohibition of a particular class from a specific section of track, or by a speed restriction for that class in that location, identified by mileposts numbers.
Speed limits are indicated in charts such as chart 1157-G1 in PRR's Panhandle Division Employee Timetable, which shows limits by class. Unless otherwise restricted, the Panhandle mainline would allow I1s Decapods to operate backwards at a maximum of 25 m.p.h., forward light at a max. of 40, and forward with train at a max. of 50. K4s Pacifics could run backwards at a max. of 35, forward light max. 50, and forward with train max. 70. Other classes were similarly noted.
In trackage rights areas, such as the Zanesville Secondary, the Zanesville Branch, and the Morrow Secondary, visiting locos are listed. On those lines, restrictions are shown for B&O class Q and NYC classes K-3 and H-10.
Here's an interesting example entry from PRR's Employee Timetable No. 5 for the Panhandle Division, dated September 27, 1953:
1100-C1 Restrictions on movement of 250 Ton derricks: "...these derricks, in so far as their weight on bridges is concerned, may be moved under the same restrictions as obtain for Class J1 and I1 engines with heavy tenders."
You can spend an entire day reading one of these Employee Timetables, and you'll learn a lot about the ins and outs of everyday railroading if you do. Operating employees had to have a copy with them at all times, and had to know it inside and out.
Tom
Equipment restrictions (speed and access) will be listed in the special instructions in the employee timetable. Sometimes they are all together in one place, sometimes they are listed for each subdivision.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
60-odd years ago I found a spur off the West Shore (NYC) that wandered off through the weeds to a lumber yard. At the switchstand was a yellow sign with black lettering on a post, just like a highway warning sign. It listed all the classes of NYC locomotives that were NOT to venture onto the siding.
About a hundred yards short of the lumber yard gate was another sign, red with white lettering: No Locomotives Beyond This Point. When I stomped the weeds down I discovered a transition joint between 75# and 60# rail.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with embargo lists in the employee timetable)
bsteel4065OK, here's the question..... on a real railroad I am aware there were restrictions on certain locos (which was yet another reason why diesels displaced steam).
On a modern Class 1 there are comparatively few restrictions on main tracks. There might be limitations on branches or in yards, but main routes, not so much. Almost all class 1 routes are minimum of 263K capy with most 286K or 315K capable. Most major routes can handle an auto rack that has a wider clearance profile and is taller than a Big Boy. The biggest problem is finding turning facilities, now all wyes since large turntables are even rarer than before. Fact is that the modern railroads can handle bigger and heavy equipment than they could in the days when the Big Boy was built.
When they were filming the movie "Biloxi Blues", the steamer that was used in the opening sequence was being deadheaded across a class 1. There was all sorts of concern about pulling the steamer (a Pacific) around a wye. Even though I pointed out that a modern EMD had a longer wheelbase than the steam engine and the railroad itself ran much bigger engines (large drivered Northerns) around the same wye it made people nervous. (the actual move was a non-event around the wye).
ACY ...the Panhandle mainline would allow I1s Decapods to operate backwards at a maximum of 25 m.p.h., forward light at a max. of 40, and forward with train at a max. of 50. K4s Pacifics could run backwards at a max. of 35, forward light max. 50, and forward with train max. 70. Other classes were similarly noted. ...
...the Panhandle mainline would allow I1s Decapods to operate backwards at a maximum of 25 m.p.h., forward light at a max. of 40, and forward with train at a max. of 50. K4s Pacifics could run backwards at a max. of 35, forward light max. 50, and forward with train max. 70. Other classes were similarly noted.
...
Why were light engine move speed limits slower than with a train?
I have Erie and Erie-Lackawanna employee timetables that restrict all classes of Alco diesel locomotives from operating inside the National Biscuit Company (Nabisco) factory due to the smoke that Alco locomotives produce. As for light engine moves being at reduced speed that would probably be due to braking power. There are specific weight to braking power ratios concerning railroad equipment. They can, however, vary by railroad. If you noticed, when UP moved BigBoy 4014, there was a whole train involved. It wasn't just a locomotive pulling the steam locomotive.
MidlandMikeWhy were light engine move speed limits slower than with a train?
One of the main reasons were brake efficiency. Steam locomotive brakes were good at holding a locomotive but stopping one at speed could loosen the driver tires from the wheels. Another reason would be the stability of the tender, and locomotive itself. With nothing pulling or pushing on the draft gear those tenders would dance around wildly.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!