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Question on prototype switching practice

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Question on prototype switching practice
Posted by Javelina on Sunday, February 1, 2015 10:35 AM

For all the folks who have experience with prototype flat switching practices, is it acceptable when shuffling cars for train makeup to temporarily leave cars straddling switches during the process, as opposed to shoving them all the way into classification tracks? This is of course assuming you're not fouling clearance points when doing this.

I'm only talking a matter of minutes here, not for hours at a time while you go to beans. Smile, Wink & Grin

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Posted by mlehman on Sunday, February 1, 2015 11:11 AM

First guideline here is whether or not you moedling a specific prototype, where its practices should be the guide. That said...

In a yard with only one crew working and assuming that no part of it obstructs the track that might be considered part of the main, I suspect a few minutes wouldn't be an issue.

For a yard with multiple crews working in it, probably not. And definitely not anything left on the main in most cases, although on a low traffic line it might be fudged a bit.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by Javelina on Sunday, February 1, 2015 1:14 PM

Thanks for your response Mike. I'm a freelancer so no specific prototype is implied, but I try not to do things that would be unheard of in the real world. My switching is all done in a yard isolated from the main by a crossover. It wouldn't be possible to foul the main while the switches in question were occupied and as I mentioned it'd only be for a short time while a cut was being moved to another classification track.

Lou

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Posted by mlehman on Sunday, February 1, 2015 5:57 PM

Lou,

That sound like it would fit your situation. Crews can be very inventive in making their work easier, so long as they are safe and don't break work rules.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by DSO17 on Sunday, February 1, 2015 6:11 PM

Javelina

For all the folks who have experience with prototype flat switching practices, is it acceptable when shuffling cars for train makeup to temporarily leave cars straddling switches during the process, as opposed to shoving them all the way into classification tracks? This is of course assuming you're not fouling clearance points when doing this.

I'm only talking a matter of minutes here, not for hours at a time while you go to beans. Smile, Wink & Grin

 

Don't know what they do nowadays, but 30 or 40 years ago it was an everyday thing on a couple large eastern roads, even in yards with several crews working. Used to do it right in front of the Trainmaster and Terminal Superintendant.

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Posted by Javelina on Sunday, February 1, 2015 11:25 PM

Gents, thanks again. My crew needn't fear any 1/87 scale brownies being passed out now! The old man is usually paying attention.....

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, February 5, 2015 4:56 AM

I knew of a small PRR yard in Columbus,OH that used one crew to do the flat switching.This crew made up locals both urban and turns.

Oddly enough the the switch lead was on a secondary main line which was protected by "yard limit" speeds and moves was govern by High Street tower.The yard crew would be notified of a approaching train and would simply clear up on a yard track.

Not to worry..The crew had lots of time between trains.You see that secondary seen 8 trains a day and on a good day maybe 10..

 

As far as leaving cars standing on a switch more then likely not..It was against the operating rules to do so but,with all things railroad crews would be known to bend that rule to make a simple switch move and the yardmaster and trainmaster would look the other way.

Today I suspect the crew would get street time or be fired..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by BigJim on Thursday, February 5, 2015 8:02 AM

We used to do it all of the time.
Ladders in yards can be extremely long. Let's say that I was working with a cut of cars out of track 20 and was switching them to tracks 10 - 14, I'm pulling those cars down the ladder and cutting them off as close as I can to where the work is. It is a long way between track 10 and track 20. Too far to do all of that walking or riding.

This idea of not blocking a ladder while switching is a bunch of Official's BS just to write somebody up. When a train is leaving or entering a yard, the ladder gets blocked. Especially if the train is too long to fit in one track. And if the long train gets blocked at the other end waiting to double over, then the rear end is blocking that ladder even longer or vice versa.

.

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Posted by Water Level Route on Thursday, February 5, 2015 8:50 AM

I believe current FRA regulations state something to the effect of the switch either having to be completely clear or completely occupied.  (You couldn't have a car covering only to the frog for example)  Also, the main track cannot be fouled.

Mike

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Posted by Javelina on Thursday, February 5, 2015 9:46 PM

Larry and Big Jim,

Thanks for the feedback and info. I'm only working an Inglenook so the ladder track is pretty short. My version of the Inglenook has a third switch (turnout) on the final classification track that leads, in it's normal position, to an interchange/runaround track. In the reverse position the turnout leads into the ladder track. Still, it seems to be a waste of time and electrons to run a cut of cars all the way back into the last track on the ladder when I'm only setting out a car or two during the classification excercise. I realize the potential for problems in the real world where fouling the main would be possible, or even the chance that a derailment would hold up work in the yard. That is why I suspect some railroads frown on the practice, but for me and my "layout" the main isn't fouled and any derailments can be quickly corrected by the Giant Hand From The Sky.

Lou

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Posted by carknocker1 on Thursday, February 12, 2015 6:16 PM
A lot times while building a train we would have to leave cars on a switch but only long enough to make a move or 2 we would never park a train like that . Rules are rules
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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:56 PM

Javelina
I realize the potential for problems in the real world where fouling the main would be possible, or even the chance that a derailment would hold up work in the yard.

When I hired out on the PRR I worked the yard extra board and it was not uncommon to switch a 30 or more car cut or the need to ride the side of a car from IIRC 112A to 137D a very long ride (around 1/2 mile) that required fouling the main line-permission from High Street tower was needed to occupy the main for the move was needed.You see 137D was in another yard-PRR had 7 yards in what was commonly known as the Cleveland Ave yard.There was zero problems during those moves.

As a side note a switchtender would line the needed switches to make the two crossover moves and the normal signal from this man was a yellow flag or slow lantern signal at night..High Street would notify the switchtender of the move.The crossovers was located back to back which made it a gentle "S" curve through the switches..

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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