Specifically, for the Northern Pacific, generally for any railroad. When did the railroads start equipping their locomotives and cabooses with radios. I want to know if I should paint out the "Radio Equipped" sign on my Also S-4 Switcher.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I think the first experiments with radios in locos and cabooses got started in the 1930s. The antennas were obvious and cumbersome. I think the Pioneer Zephyr at some point had a clothesline-style radio antenna along its roof. I believe the Lackawanna was an early pioneer in using radio in the 1950s and originated the "radio equipped" lightning stripe style designations on locos and cabooses. However, it wasn't until the 1970s that the railroads found radio could be reliable enough for regular dispatching.
Judging by some of theYou-Tube videos I have watched, I think it was early on for yard engines (the thirties is probably about right) and much later for road engines. I think the geography of the RR in question would be the determining factor, as there was no vast network of repeater stations back then. Hopefully someone has the answer for the NP.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
For the Wabash, I believe for radio, on board trains, it was in the 1960s but not reliable until the 1970s.
Victor A. Baird
www.erstwhilepublications.com
NP2626Specifically, for the Northern Pacific, generally for any railroad. When did the railroads start equipping their locomotives and cabooses with radios. I want to know if I should paint out the "Radio Equipped" sign on my Also S-4 Switcher.
The only NP book I have access to at the moment has one comment on the subject. ""Radio Equipped" slogans did not begin appearing on cab units until late 1962." It does not say anything about when these words appeared on hood units.
A look at the Fallen Flags website turns up a 5/11/1958 photo of S4 NP 720 with a "Radio Equipped" logo on the hood.
There are hundreds of photos of N.P. Diesels with "Radio Equipped" signs on them from many years, at the Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association NPRHA. Being able to tell when the company started to equip their locomotives with these signs from the dates on the photos isn't very precise. However, I appreciate your effeort, thanks!
Not quite what your looking for, but some might find it interesting.
http://earlyradiohistory.us/1914trn.htm
The Erie had the first complete systemwide radio installation in 1950.
Keep in mind "radio equipped" on railroad equipment meant the railroad had engines, cabooses, etc. that were connected to each other via radio, for employees to use to talk to each other and to a dispatcher, station agent etc. There probably were some experiments before WW2, but it really didn't get going until after the war, and was common by the sixties.
This is different from passenger cars (usually observation or parlor cars) having a radio to entertain passengers by playing regular broadcast radio programs. That started in the 1920's, and was standard by the mid-thirties.
Also, earlier radio communications between loco and caboose, switcher and yardmaster, etc, would be more incidental, "You're clear of the switch", "Three cars", etc. Radio dispatching as in TWC and DTC couldn't get going until radio became more reliable in the 1950s. There was a bad head-on on the Erie in the 1950s and the PRR in the 1960s because radio units on locos weren't working, and operators and dispatchers couldn't contact the engineers to correct errors.
The Erie wreck was caused from radio distortion due to the fact that the Ramapo Mountains where the trains were running are loaded with iron ore. After the wreck the Erie installed a repeater antenna that "bent" the radio waves around the mountain. That repeater antenna is still in place and still in use today by NJT, Metro-North and NS.
Keep in mind a couple of related things that had a big impact on widespread adoption of radio...
There probably were a few crystal sets around, but most early RR radios were creatures of the tube, the vacuum tube. Big, bulky, required a lot of power to run. Good thing they had something as big as a locomotive to carry them around...OK, I'm exaggerating a little. But they facilitated communications between the head end and rear end and to the dispatcher. Didn't do much for the brakeman out in the weather or anyone away from the train.
Then the transistor came along and revolutinized the very concept of radio. Suddenly, they became more practical and portable, as well as needed much less adjustment and repair. One of the 3 inventors who shared in the Nobel prize was John Bardeen of the University of Illinois. His first student here, Nick Holonyak, also ended up on the faculty here and invented the LED, something very familiar to most model railroaders.
In a nutshell -- or maybe even smaller -- that is why radio really took off in the 1950s to become the very useful device it's now know as in many forms.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
On November 27th 1913, the first "official" wireless transmission was transmitted from Scranton, PA towards the train traveling to Binghamton, NY at 60 miles per hour. In all, 350 words representing several pieces of news were clearly picked up by the operator aboard the train.
That said, in 1980 I know they were still handing on orders to passing trains in Narrowsburg, NY.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
In my maybe less than straight forward way of asking a question, the reality of what I was asking was: When did the lightning striped “Radio Equipped” sign start appearing on locomotives and cabooses?
I model the year 1953 and in specific: the Northern Pacific. Until I purchased a Bachmann S-4 switcher that had this sign on it, I didn't pay much attention to this question! I could simply paint these signs out and be done with it; however, it is an interesting question.
Mark,
Congrats on 2000 posts!
I'm no NP expert, but I'd almost bet that along with the earrlier post about signage going on everything by 1962 that's too early. Then again, if the unit was among the first to bear it, it could still be legit.
I see that the NP S-4 fleet was purchased between 10/51 and 12/53, so it would have to be the factory paint scheme on that unit. Maybe a builder's photo? Best I could come up with was a similarly painted NP S-1 in 1958.
I found a photo of RS-1 taken in 1953 that does not have the Radio Equipped sign on the side. So, I'm going to go with painting them out, when they show up on my locos.
Don't want to beat a dead horse here but...
I just happened to be reading the Fall 1995 issue of Vintage Rails, the premier issue, and came across this tidbit...
A First In Railroad Radio
Although many railroads had been experimenting with radio, the Denver & Rio Grande Western walked away with the first railroad radio authorization. The Federal Communications Commission on February 27, 1946 approved thirty-two new mobile units.
Thomas Edison experimented with induction telegraphy on the Lehigh Valley Ry. and filed for a patent for such on May 23, 1885. The Pennsy's "Trainphone" was a similar induction system.
Ed
JOHN BRUCE III I think the first experiments with radios in locos and cabooses got started in the 1930s. The antennas were obvious and cumbersome. I think the Pioneer Zephyr at some point had a clothesline-style radio antenna along its roof. I believe the Lackawanna was an early pioneer in using radio in the 1950s and originated the "radio equipped" lightning stripe style designations on locos and cabooses. However, it wasn't until the 1970s that the railroads found radio could be reliable enough for regular dispatching.
I think you're right on that, John. I remember when the DL&W merged with the Erie in 1960, I saw for the first time the "radio equipped" lightning stripe. True, for the first 10 years or so of that merger the "radio equipped" stencil was in name only, as I would witness trainmen using mainly hand signals during that time. It probably was not until the solid-state radio technology was perfected that radios were used for inter-train or locomotive-to-trainman communication. I'm no electrocncs expert, so I could be wrong on that.
I think even now there are crews that prefer hand signals, for two reasons -- to cut down on radio chatter, and to prevent misunderstandings (i.e., if two crews are calling out car lengths at the same time and the engineer doesn't know who's saying "that'll do").