Erie Hopper lettering

[sandusky]

A limited search of web resources makes me think Erie RR 2-bay hoppers had white lettering and heralds, rather than the yellow on the ubiquitous Athearn HO model. Can anyone confirm or refute?
Thx

Mike

[ACY Tom]

Growing up along the Erie mainline in the 1950's, I don't remember ever seeing a yellow herald on an Erie freight car.  I have been told that at least one order of boxcars did have yellow heralds, but there weren't a lot of them.  I'm not aware of yellow heralds ever being used on an Erie hopper.  I'd be interested in knowing whether there were exceptions; but even if somebody showed me proof,  I don't think I would put such an oddball on my railroad.

The Athearn twin offset hopper isn't quite right for Erie anyway, as it represents the standard version of the AAR offset twin.   The Athearn cars, as well as similar standard cars from Kadee, Accurail, and Atlas, are correct for a number of other roads such as Southern, L&N, B&O, and many others.  RAILWAY PROTOTYPE CYCLOPEDIA Vol. 1 gives a rundown.  The Alternate standard was preferred by the Van Sweringen roads (C&O, Erie, NKP, W&LE, etc.) as well as a number of others. Erie had numbers 24000-26499 (2500 cars) which were 10'4" tall, and 26500-27749 (1250 cars) which were 10'5" tall.  These are pretty well represented by the Intermountain offset Alternate Standard car.  Erie also had numbers 28000-28899 (900 cars), which looked similar but were 10'8" tall. 

The larger Athearn offset quad hopper is correct for Erie, although I don't think they sell it with that paint scheme.  RAILWAY PROTOTYPE MODELER no. 5 covers these.  Erie 39000-39799 (800 cars) were of this type.

You're probably on shaky ground if you put a yellow herald on any of these cars, although both large and small heralds would be prototypical.

Most of this info comes from the RPC books, which are essential for anybody who is concerned with accuracy issues like this.

Tom  

[dknelson]

There is supposedly an Erie color chart in the July 1944 issue of MR, which I do not have.  (I will once this all-access capability they are teasing us with is up and running.)  The June 1957 issue of RMC supposedly has some Erie freight car photos including hoppers - but I don't have that issue either.  Know somebody with a good magazine collection?

Dave Nelson

["JaBear"]

A little late but following up on Daves tip off, and I quote directly from the July 1944 Model Railroader.

“Hopper, gondola, and flat: Body, black. Lettering, white. Monogram, diamond, and lettering, imitation gold; center circle, black.”

Cheers, the Bear.

[ACY Tom]

Bear:

I don't ike to disagree, and I wasn't there in 1944, so I can't say anything with 100% certainty, but I'd have more faith in the info if it came from official Erie paperwork, or from documented color photos.  As I said, I understand a few boxcars were given yellow heralds, but they may represent a very tiny fraction of the Erie roster; and the painting plan that you cite may have lasted only a very short time. 

Tom

["JaBear"]

Gidday Tom, discussions on correct colour schemes can be quite interesting, informative, and unfortunately, very occasionally, quite acrimonious, though I have no intention of going there!

BTW, from the same source; “Box: Body, freight-car brown, roof, black. Lettering, white. Monogram, diamond and lettering, imitation gold; center circle, black.”

Colour photography especially in its infancy could be problematic in its accuracy of exact colours, and to add to the mix, there are also the photos that were “colourised” after the event and can fool us younger folk as being the real deal if their provenance is unclear.

 Official Railroad technical specifications should be the “be all and end all” but, and perhaps North American Railroads were more disciplined, in the case of the red paint generally applied to the headstocks of NZR steam locomotives , the Addington Railway Workshops was found to have had at one stage a different shade of red! (This really wound up some of the uniformed rivet counters, hence my early remark).

Bottom line, while applauding Mike the OP in his desire for accuracy, unless he goes and paints his hoppers day-glow orange with purple lettering, and then tries to pass that colour scheme off as genuine, then I for one won’t criticise.

Cheers, the Bear.

[ACY Tom]

Even then, I wouldn't criticize him.  It's his railroad, after all.  But I, for one, wouldn't want to have to look at it!

I agree that official railroad sources, or the builder, are the best places to get our info.  Your citation makes no mention of black ends on Erie boxcars, and some of that road's boxcars certainly had those.  If memory serves, some had black doors as well, and that's not mentioned either.   I suspect Kalmbach got some info that was correct for specific cars at a specific time, and slipped into the trap of assuming that their info was universally correct.

Railway Prototype Cyclopedia No 3 has a photo on p. 43 showing Erie steel boxcar 82525,  one of a group of 700 cars (82500-83199) built July, 1946.  Pat Wider is understood to have accessed ACF builder's records for the info in that article.  He says the sides and roof (not the ends) were brown; the ends black; and the small Erie Monogram was dulux gold.  That doesn't match what either of us has found! Note: At first, I typed it wrong, so I had to make a correction there.

I believe different orders were painted differently, and repaints reflected the date, shop location, and availability of specific colors more than anything else.  This is true on many roads --- not just Erie.