I've noticed lately in some frieghts I've been watching that there will be about a dozen or so full coal hoppers on manifest frieghts. I am curious as to what buisiness would need just enough coal to where they could attach the load to a manifest train and not a unit coal.
If it helps, I live near Knoxville, TN and the line in question is the K&A Line from Knoxville to Atlanta.
I don't know about down there, but on BNSF these are often cars that needed repairs catching up with their unit train assignments.
There are plenty of businesses that consume coal that don't need it in trainload lots - everything from thermal heating plants to small-scale foundries to chemical processors. Cement plants use coal, and many don't have storage capacity for 20,000 tons of it. One with which I was once familiar received 10 to 12 carloads every week or so.
Back when, in order to fill out a shipload, the N&W might tack a hopper or two to the marker end of the Powhatan Arrow.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - where 12 hoppers IS a unit train)
Chuck has a great explanation there. I often notice similar traffic on the old IC/now CN main to Chicago, so this sort of thing happens in many places.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
When it was around the Reading used to fill out the tonnage of any freight with hoppers headed the same direction.
There are a lot fewer "loose car" coal hopper sightings than there were even 20 years ago, but there are dedicated power plants at major universities, some large hospitals, and other private and government institutions (prisons?) that are still coal powered and take only a car at a time.
Dave Nelson
From time to time I will spot just a couple of coal hoppers on a manifest freight here on Norfolk Southern's main line, but a few weeks ago I spotted a single loaded coal hopper on a 70-80 car manifest. It reminded me of a incident at a train show which had a number of layouts on display. There was a know it all who was loudly telling the club members that they didn't know much about railroading as they had a single coal hopper on a manifest freight. So much for his knowledge. Seems to me, that if you think of doing something on a model layout, go ahead & do it, because it probably has been done or tried in real life.
Tom
Pittsburgh, PA
Tom, don't you love it when Mr Know-it-all demonstrates his complete ignorance?
Since all coal is not created equal, that car might have contained a specific grade of metallurgical coal needed by some small-scale foundry with a special order for five hundred tons of widgets. Or, as in days of old, it might be the one carload needed to fill out the lading of a specific 20,000 ton collier at Lambert's Point. After all, the Powhatan Arrow doesn't run anymore..
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with two collieries and lots of loose car coal shipments)
Chuck,I doubt if railroads cares all that much about what "Mr Know-it-alls" or even the "experts" think since they're in the business to move freight.
Came across one of those "nobody ships anything in boxcars these days" types while railfaning the other day..A CSX manifest rolled by with probably around 20 50' boxcars in the 87 car consist.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
tomikawaTTThere are plenty of businesses that consume coal that don't need it in trainload lots - everything from thermal heating plants to small-scale foundries to chemical processors.
The GE plant I work at still had the coal fired boilers in use when I started there in 1978. We would get about five cars a week back then.
Here's a 1936 photo of the GE Lamp Division owned hoppers waiting to be emptied. That's the Nickel Plate Buffalo-Cleveland main in the background.
Here's a zoom shot of the hoppers. Wish I had a better side view. I'd like to see Bowser or Accurail do this paint scheme (Bowsre did several GE Lamps covered hoppers).
Reporting marks ILDX is Incandescent Lamp Department. Back then GE had dozens of lamp plants throughout the east so it must have been economically justifiable to own their own fleet of hoppers. Just thought these photos would add to the conversation!
Thanks, Ed
It's probably not in the era many here model, but in doing my research for my Wabash book, (it covers mostly the steam and transition era on the Fourth District), I discovered some interesting facts about hauling coal.
It was not uncommon for some of the westbound hot "Redball" freights to carry a block or two of coal filled hoppers. Mostly, this was "Eastern Coal". But also, coal destined for main line or yard coaling machines would be carried eastbound in these hot trains from coal mines in Illinois served by the Wabash (via Decatur, Illinois). These Red Ball freights would not do set outs of coal at the coaling machines, but rather drop them at a yard so the locals or drag freights could take care of them. However, eastbound Red Balls might drop reefers or loaded stock cars enroute.
There is one funny story about a hog producer that got preferential treatment in having the hot trains stop to pick up his hogs at Lagro, Indiana. Anyway, the new Division Superintendent found out about it and he went though the roof!
Victor A. Baird
www.erstwhilepublications.com
Perhaps other possibilities are petroleum coke or coke made from coal.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
Chuck,
Coal cars on the Powhatan Arrow? Do you have any photos? I can't imagine the N&W doing that at all for any reason.
I know many railroads would "fill out tonnage" on a manifest train with coal cars if needed.
Roger Huber
I've seen many photo's of D&RGW freight trains with blocks of coal cars in them, although most coal trains on the Rio Grande were unit trains.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 I've seen many photo's of D&RGW freight trains with blocks of coal cars in them, although most coal trains on the Rio Grande were unit trains.
Jim,Here's what I see a lot of trackside..Locomotives roll by some railfans turns and walks back to their chairs and proceeds to talk about how nobody ships in boxcars,you never see loose car coal shipments etc.Had they watch the trains roll by instead of walking away they would see how their "expert" comments is laughable to the knowledgeable.
Larry - I couldn't agree with you more. I have been guilty of not always watching the entire train. And every time I don't, it comes back to bite me. I couldn't tell you how many times I've missed something really interesting because I turned my back & walked away. Even on intermodals. Guess who doesn't do that anymore.
tomikawaTTBack when, in order to fill out a shipload, the N&W might tack a hopper or two to the marker end of the Powhatan Arrow.
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