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Peavy Grain Reefers

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Peavy Grain Reefers
Posted by jrbernier on Friday, October 03, 2014 11:34 AM

  Back in the late 60's/early 70's, Peavy bought used steel reefers for grain loading.  They removed the ice bunkers and loaded them with grain.  They were painted blue.  I remember seeing them, but never took a photo.  A search of the usual web sites has not resulted in a picture - Any one have pictures of those cars they can post?

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by charlie9 on Friday, October 03, 2014 12:36 PM

Jim,

Were these similar to the ART reefers coverted to flour cars by the MP in St Louis?

Charlie

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Posted by jrbernier on Saturday, October 04, 2014 7:29 PM

Charlie,

  I suspect they may be similar.  I cannot beleive that I never took a photo of the cars when thery were in service here in Minnesota!

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by charlie9 on Saturday, October 04, 2014 8:16 PM

Jim,  you said reefers converted to grain cars.  I would think they would be a bit small for hauling grain.  Since Peavey shipped a lot of flour, that is where I got my idea.

I knew a couple of  NYC carmen who took the buyoff after the PC merger and went to work over in St Louis converting the ART cars for MP.  I don't know who's shop the work was done in but it was around 1969 or 70.

I saw some of those little cars later on and they looked kind of small even next to a regular 40' box car.  Of course the plug doors were replaced with conventional sliding doors.

I never saw any of the Peavey cars even though the big flour mill in Alton Il used to be a Peavey operation.  Maybe they snuck in and out without me ever being around when they were.

Charlie

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, October 05, 2014 2:29 PM

From my January 1970 ORER:

 

PVRX 15000-15074 refrigerator    internal length 40'-5"    inside height 7'-11"  doors 8' wide, 7'-7" high    75 cars

Also appear in April 1971 ORER

Do not appear in January 1973 ORER

 

They were listed under General American Leasing.

 

 

 

Interesting!!!

 

 

Ed

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Posted by charlie9 on Sunday, October 05, 2014 3:31 PM

I have done a bit of dirty math and if one of those cars was filled to cubic capacity with grain, it would come out to around 130,000 lbs or 65 ton payload.  Is that a bit heavy for a reefer of that vintage?  Even so, I am not sure PVRX stands for Peavey.  Google it.

Charlie

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, October 05, 2014 3:57 PM

charlie9

I have done a bit of dirty math and if one of those cars was filled to cubic capacity with grain, it would come out to around 130,000 lbs or 65 ton payload.  Is that a bit heavy for a reefer of that vintage?

 

 

The capacity is listed as 80,000 pounds.  Remember that box cars were never fully filled when loaded with grain, anyway.  Boxcars were typically loaded to about 65% cubic volume for wheat.  And 65% of 130,000 pounds is 85,000 pounds.

 

 

Even so, I am not sure PVRX stands for Peavey.  Google it.

 

I am sure.  I am looking at the book right now.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by charlie9 on Sunday, October 05, 2014 5:52 PM

Your weight calculations make sense.  I think this was during the great box car shortage, not?  Evidently, the AAR re-assigns reporting marks when they are no longer used.

Charlie

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Posted by DSchmitt on Sunday, October 05, 2014 8:47 PM

PVRX   Reporting marks have been reassigned a number of times

Platte Valley Railroad  - Piedmont & Western Railroad Club list, No date

General American Transportation Corporation   -  Piedmont & Western Railroad Club list, No date

Pook Valley Rail Systems  - Piedmont & Western Railroad Club list, No date and other lists (RailServe, Trains) - Company founded in 1998 per PVRS  website.

Marchand Machinery Maintenance Company, LLC  -  National Railroad Museum list dated 4-2008. Company founded 1972 per Dun & Bradstreet.

 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by jrbernier on Sunday, October 05, 2014 9:26 PM

  I think PVGX are the correct reporting marks for Peavey grain cars.  Peavey was purchased by ConAgra in 1982....

  40' house cars were usually only loaded to depth of a little over 4' - About 40 tons of wheat. ..

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by DSchmitt on Sunday, October 05, 2014 11:25 PM

From Piedmont & Western list 

"PVFX and PVGX  both were "WHOLLY OWNED SUB. OF CONAGRA, INC. [PEAVEY CO.]"

apparently reissued to "GENERAL ELECTRIC RAILCAR SERVICES CORPORATION"

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by mlehman on Monday, October 06, 2014 6:07 PM

A pic of a Peavey RBL, PVYX 400: http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=66022

This car does not appear to be in grain service, so they seem to have had old reefers or very similar cars for both standard freight and for grain.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by DSchmitt on Monday, October 06, 2014 9:13 PM

PVYX is listed as a Merchants Dispatch Transportation Company. Found no other ownership listed.

RRpicturesarchives has a photio of PVYX  319.  It appears to be  same type of car as PVYX 400.  It appears yellow/orange  in photo dated 8-1-1979. Lettering is same style as PVYX 400 in photo link posted by Mike which is dated 3-00-81.. It is listed in Merchants Dispatch series PVYX 300-399.  No 400 in series.  Google image search found a couple other 300-399 series cars that appear orange.

Atlas has blue PVYX 394, 400 and 402 in their HO Trainman 40' Plugdoor Box Car  series listed as Merchants Dispatch cars..

Only PVFX and PVGX cars I found - Peavey covered hoppers.

 

Trying to determine  ownership from reporting marks should be simple but because of incompleter records on the Net can be very confusing.

 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by wp8thsub on Thursday, October 09, 2014 12:02 AM

A discussion on these cars came up on the Yahoo Modern Freight Car List just within the last week.  Two photos were linked.  Not sure either of these are what you're looking for.

http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=66022

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=798782 

One of these was already linked above, but I thought I'd throw in the image for both.

Rob Spangler

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, October 09, 2014 11:41 AM

7j43k

From my January 1970 ORER:

 

PVRX 15000-15074 refrigerator    internal length 40'-5"    inside height 7'-11"  doors 8' wide, 7'-7" high    75 cars

Also appear in April 1971 ORER

Do not appear in January 1973 ORER

 

They were listed under General American Leasing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also listed in the January 1970 ORER:

 

PVYX 100-299 refrigerator      internal length 39'-7"   inside height 9'-4"    doors 8' wide, 9'-2" high     50 cars

The above were listed under Merchants Despatch

 

 

In the January 1973 ORER, Merchants Despatch had this addition:

 

PVYX 300-499 refrigerator      internal length 40'       inside height 9'-1"     doors 8' wide, 8'-9 5/8" high      102 cars

 

And the PVYX 100-299 series was up to 67 cars

 

I suspect all of the above cars are not refrigerator cars, but insulated box cars.

 

 

And, I will note that, in the Index section, the PVRX reporting marks were listed under Peavy, while the PVYX were under Merchants Despatch.

 

 

 

Ed 

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Posted by wp8thsub on Thursday, October 09, 2014 12:57 PM

7j43k
I suspect all of the above cars are not refrigerator cars, but insulated box cars.

Most of what modelers consider "insulated boxcars" are AAR type RB (usually with an L suffix to indicate installation of load restraining devices) for "bunkerless refrigerator."

Rob Spangler

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Posted by DSchmitt on Thursday, October 09, 2014 4:19 PM

What is the difference between a bunkerless refrigerator RB and an insulated bo car XI? Could the same car be designated either type?

I found a list of AAR Mechinical Designationn Class Codes with dates of ORER where the code is confirmed to have appeared and descriptions of the car type.  Descriptions of car types changed over the years.

 

RB
1/1917-2/1926
Beer and Ice Refrigerator. A car with body and doors equipped with insulation, having no ice tanks or ventilating devices.
3/1927-3/1929
Beer, Ice, Water, Vinegar or Produce Refrigerator. A car with body and doors equipped with insulation and of the same general construction as the standard refrigerator car with the exception that the car is not equipped with ice tanks or ventilating devices.
7/1932-4/1958
Beverage, Ice, Water or Vinegar Refrigerator, similar in design to a bunker refrigerator, except that it is not equipped with ice bunkers and with or without ventilating devices.
10/1966-1/1980
A bunkerless refrigerator car similar in design to an "RS" car with or without ventilating devices and with or without devices for attaching portable heaters. Constructed with a minimum of 3 in. of insulation in sides and ends and 3-1/192 in. in floor and roof based on the insulation requirements given in A.A.R. Supplement to Manual Plate C-2 or a thickness reduced in proportion to the thermal conductivity of the insulation.

 

 

 

 

RBL
10/1957-4/1999 
A car similar in construction to an "RB" type car, but equipped in addition with adjustable loading or stowing devices. 
NOTE: Cars equipped with interior side rails only, built new, rebuilt or reclassified on and after January 1, 1966, in order to qualify for the "RBL" designation, shall have a minimum of four (4) usable side rails on each wall of car, each extending from doorway to approximately four (4) feet from end of car, plus facilities in doorway to accommodate doorway members. The facilities in the doorway are not required in cars equipped with plug type doors (1/1962-4/1999)

 

 

XI
1/1917-3/1929
Box Car, insulated. A box car having walls, floor and roof insulated, not equipped with ice bunkers or ice baskets. This car ordinarily used in transporting vegetables, fruits, etc.
7/1932-1/1961
Insulated Box. Similar in design to general service box car, but either wholly or partially insulated. Not equipped either with ventilating devices or for refrigeration.
10/1957-10/1966
Insulated box car similar in design to "XM", but either wholly or partially insulated, equipped either with or without ventilating devices, not equipped for refrigeration.

 

The list appears to cover 1917-1999. The complete list is here:   http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/index2.htm?GNE_AARCarCodes.htm

 

Sorry for posting descriptions twice.  Second copy won't delete.Tongue Tied

 

 

 

RB
1/1917-2/1926
Beer and Ice Refrigerator. A car with body and doors equipped with insulation, having no ice tanks or ventilating devices.
3/1927-3/1929
Beer, Ice, Water, Vinegar or Produce Refrigerator. A car with body and doors equipped with insulation and of the same general construction as the standard refrigerator car with the exception that the car is not equipped with ice tanks or ventilating devices.
7/1932-4/1958
Beverage, Ice, Water or Vinegar Refrigerator, similar in design to a bunker refrigerator, except that it is not equipped with ice bunkers and with or without ventilating devices.
10/1966-1/1980
A bunkerless refrigerator car similar in design to an "RS" car with or without ventilating devices and with or without devices for attaching portable heaters. Constructed with a minimum of 3 in. of insulation in sides and ends and 3-1/192 in. in floor and roof based on the insulation requirements given in A.A.R. Supplement to Manual Plate C-2 or a thickness reduced in proportion to the thermal conductivity of the insulation.

 

 

 

 

RBL
10/1957-4/1999 
A car similar in construction to an "RB" type car, but equipped in addition with adjustable loading or stowing devices. 
NOTE: Cars equipped with interior side rails only, built new, rebuilt or reclassified on and after January 1, 1966, in order to qualify for the "RBL" designation, shall have a minimum of four (4) usable side rails on each wall of car, each extending from doorway to approximately four (4) feet from end of car, plus facilities in doorway to accommodate doorway members. The facilities in the doorway are not required in cars equipped with plug type doors (1/1962-4/1999)

 

XI
1/1917-3/1929
Box Car, insulated. A box car having walls, floor and roof insulated, not equipped with ice bunkers or ice baskets. This car ordinarily used in transporting vegetables, fruits, etc.
7/1932-1/1961
Insulated Box. Similar in design to general service box car, but either wholly or partially insulated. Not equipped either with ventilating devices or for refrigeration.
10/1957-10/1966
Insulated box car similar in design to "XM", but either wholly or partially insulated, equipped either with or without ventilating devices, not equipped for refrigeration.

 

 

 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

  • Member since
    November, 2002
  • From: US
  • 2,187 posts
Posted by wp8thsub on Thursday, October 09, 2014 4:51 PM

DSchmitt
What is the difference between a bunkerless refrigerator RB and an insulated bo car XI?

It's mostly the amount and type of insulation.  An RB is essentially built like a normal refrigerator car, but with without either ice bunkers or a mechanical refrigeration unit.  It can maintain a nearly constant temperature for a long period of time.  An insulated boxcar has no standard for quality of insulation provided, so the shipper wouldn't necessarily be able to expect a given level of protection from external temperature changes.

Rob Spangler

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    November, 2013
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Posted by JIM HEBNER on Friday, November 03, 2017 4:33 PM

The book "Merchants Despatch" by Roger Hinman lists PVYX cars as owned by MDT but leased to Peavey - page 276

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