I want to refresh/repaint/re-decal an old Athearn BB B&M work caboose- I noticed in my research online that the blue which Athearn (and Tyco) used is significantly darker than many of the current B&M models offered. I have not come across this darker blue shade in color images (RailPictures Archives, etc).I have a bottle of Polly Scale B&M Blue (acrylic) which seems to suggest the lighter blue of the current models. Is there a close match to that darker blue- or was Athearn just painting it the darker blue on it's own? Or- is my Polly Scale B&M the better choice?
Cedarwoodron
Unfortunately, it's likely Athearn came up with its own color. I've run into the same problem with the gray on an Atlas Wabash GP7. (I have some details parts I'm adding in the gray area.) The gray on the model has a bit of blue tint to it. Nothing straight out of the bottle comes close. I am going to try some custom mixing today in hopes of coming close but most likely I'll have to mask over the blue paint with another gray on the entire top half of the model. No, I'm not going to "weather" and blend in.
Victor A. Baird
www.erstwhilepublications.com
wabash2800....The gray on the model has a bit of blue tint to it.....
Some years ago I painted several Wabash F-units and a couple of PAs for a friend. The formula (from the December 1987 MR) for Wabash grey using Scalecoat paint is:
1 Tsp. CPR Grey #684 drops B&O Royal Blue #37
If not an exact match, it may give you at least a starting point for your own custom mix.
Wayne
Thanks Wayne. Isn't that odd that they'd use teaspoons and drops in the same formula?
wabash2800 Isn't that odd that they'd use teaspoons and drops in the same formula?
Yeah, I thought so, too, but they did note, in brackets, that it was equivalent to 200 drops.
That helps! (really) LOL
The blue that I remember on those cars was not even close to B&M Blues that I remember. I don't recall the B&M having that style of caboose either.
The first B&M blue was on ther GP9s around 1957 . This was the Mcginnis style paint generally nicknamed the Bluebird scheme. Around that time a few Funits and an E7 were repainted it looks to me as though this blue was a bit darker than the EMD painted GP 9s.This repainting was in the late 1950s or early 1960s. By the late 1960s yard switchers RS units and the GP7s were being repainted blue this paint looked to me to be lighter than the Eand F units McGinnis repaints. It also seems to me that by the time of the arrival of the GP38s and GP40 those had a darker blue paint. All this change in color could be due to weathering changes in paint type and formulas or it could be all in my head . I don't pretend to be an expert on B&M blue if anyone wishes to correct what I posted please do so.
However since you are doing a model of a work caboose the B&M did not have why not use what you have.
You should have seen the excitement I caused on the BM_ RR Yahoo forum when I posted a comment about the New Athearn Genisis GP9s,I stated that I thought they were a little to dark on the blue color. No debate on the Black or White though!
I am a lifelong member of the New Haven Railroad Historical and Technical Association and we have had endless debate over Pre-McGinnis orange and green shades and McGinnis era and Post McGinnis Reds Redorange shades but again not much about the Black and White.
Rember Model Railroading is fun!
Ron High
Ron:
Just to belabor the point, I found some spray can blues that seem to mimic the B&M blue: Krylon gloss global blue; Krylon Fusion gloss blue hyacinth; Krylon Dual gloss regal blue; Rustoleum Gloss enamel fresh blue; Rustoleum American Accents wildflower blue- they all seem to "hover" around that late 1950s B&M blue.
I then saw a B&M caboose on Railpictures Archives that had what appeared to be a very dark blue on the roof and cupola of the caboose, contrasting nicely with the lighter blue of the caboose sides.
At this point, I plan to use one of those blues mentioned above and a Krylon navy blue (for the roof and cupola) for my little work caboose project- it may then ring truer to the late 50s livery for the B&M cabooses, even if the "Athearn BB work caboose" was just a figment of Irv's imagination.
The only thing I know for sure, when I was changing the numbers on some Athearn "bluebird" GP-40's I was pleasantly surprised to find I could paint over the old numbers and have the B&M blue from the paint bottle match the blue on the Athearn shells just perfectly. That was some years ago and I cannot remember which model paint I used. Might have been Polly Scale, might have been Accu paint, might have been Floquil.
As far as color goes, in the first place, we seldom know what the original color really was. Color photographs shift the hues significantly, depending upon the film used (Kodachrome would make any red into bright red), the time of day, the lighting and the processing in the photolab. The color processes used in printing, for example printing the Northern New England Color Guide, all have "adjustments". What you see on the printed page is what the printer thought the colors ought to be. The printer will adjust the process until the color looks right to him. The old "cool white" fluorescent tubes were not really white, they were blue, and anything blue viewed under them came out much bluer than it would under daylight, or incandescent light. The eye adjusts color too. Ever wear dark green sunglasses? When you first put them on, the world looks green, but after a few minutes wearing them, the color looks normal again. The eye has adjusted to make the color look right despite the dark green of the sunglasses.
Then we won't even get into color changes from one batch of paint to another, and sun fading of the color under UV light from the sun.
Bottom line, if the color looks right to you, it's close enough.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Good points David Starr. The New Haven Railroad Historical and Technical Association actually produced a Color Guide where the pages were printed with the colors were printed full bleed right to the edge and half the page was treated with a gloss overcoat. You should see the difference in the color just from that treatment.There are so many reasons the color can be different or percieved to be,as David points out.
I also have seen many discussions on building and structure colors also. It was pointed out that many railroad buildings were painted back in the day when in the the paint was hand mixed with powered pigment . So there could have been a formula but it could have been ,well that looks close enough.So I guess it comes down to what looks good to you.
www.newenglanddepot.net
On my B&M Work Caboose, as posted in the photo gallery during the past several weeks, I ended up using the Rustoleum Wildflower Blue, then Dullcoated it after applying decals. It looks pretty good- and far better than the original Athearn BB factory color (that may have degraded over time, as the kit was at least 40 yrs old- it had sprung trucks!).
I have a remnant bottle of Polly Scale acrylic B&M Blue and- in normal daytime indoor daylight (room with window), the two colors appear quite close.
I would guess that perfection- in color matching- is more a matter of perception at this point. I know my eyes started to glaze over from looking at so many McGinnis-era B&M caboose and box car images!