And don't forget that the big M-3/4 Yellowstones of the Missabe Road spent quite a bit of time wandering off-road during the winters of WWII when the ore docks were frozen. In fact, the M-4's were delivered straight from Baldwin to the Rio Grande, which rented them and claimed that they were the best steamers ever to grace that Colorado/Utah line. Other railroads that leased them were the GN, NP, and one was even rumored to have been working the Western Pacific's Eastern Division between Elko, NV. and Salt Lake, UT. Rather interesting, as the M-3/4 2-8-8-4 design was based upon the big Baldwin 251 series 2-8-8-2's built for the Western Pacific in 1931 and 1938, respectively. I model Rio Grande standard gauge during the WWII/Korean period, and have 3 Akane Missabe Yellowstones "on loan". Terrific locomotives. Those beautiful 2-8-8-4's are my all-time favorite steam locomotive.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
E21 I think one of the reasons that the railroad isnt seen in the Model railroad as much was due in part as to actually how small of an operation it was (even though it ran some the greatest ore trains in the USA) I work out of two harbors as an engineer for CN. From two harbors to Iron jct is 74 miles. The missabe sub (Proctor MN to T bird North) 68 miles. Minntac sub (Wolf to Minntac plant itself) 8 miles. Keenan sub (keenan to BNSF connection) 20 miles. There was also some trackage that was ripped up, such as the line out of Alborn MN that went to Hibbing MN (25 miles) Bear creek (Superior wisconsin) to the top of steelton hill where it connects to the missabe sub is about 20 miles that is still used, just not by the Missabe. All in all youre talking about 250-300 miles of mainline at one time. There were many little mines that the railroad serviced along its original route so operations wise it can be a stunning little railroad. But someone mentioned earlier that Modeling companies may not get back what they spend on painting and detailing these engines just for the simple fact that there is a very small community for it. And what is made is typically expensive. Myself being an O scaler, to purchase a Yellowstone from Precision scale would cost me $4500.00. And most of the Missabe people I know live in Duluth, MN. It was a stunning railroad at one time with industries basically every 10 miles along the railroad. Keenan taking in all commercial work (Hoppers and tank cars for the mines and bomb plants) Along the Iron range sub you had major pick up and setout points at Sparta, Biwabik, Allen jct, Skybo, and waldo before dropping down into Two Harbors. On the Missabe Sub you had, (north to south) Minntac and Minorca and Fairlane ore plants, Keenan, Alborn, and proctor being the major ore classification yard were trains would either go down to docks 5 and 6, steelton, or interchange with railroads at rices point. The lines that disappeared where the Alborn connection from Hibbing where multiple tac plants and commercial setouts were made and the major tac plant at Hibbing. The Ely line, that only has about 12 miles of track left, is used for interchange with the North shore mining railroad which is one of the smallest railroads in northern Minnesota. The ely line serviced the towns up to Ely MN where the railroad at the time was the only life line. That portion of the railroad was ripped out sometime in the late 50s or 60s... cant quite remember. Its now called W11. There was a line out of Sparta, that split off and went through virgina and I believe connected with tower MN and Ely again. Thats been gone for sometime as well. 90% of the small industries are gone as well, with only the major tac plants being serviced. But now you know why its not as looked at as some railroads. As impressive as it was, the modeling community for it is small and far between so those who do model it are scratch building there own models.
I think one of the reasons that the railroad isnt seen in the Model railroad as much was due in part as to actually how small of an operation it was (even though it ran some the greatest ore trains in the USA) I work out of two harbors as an engineer for CN. From two harbors to Iron jct is 74 miles. The missabe sub (Proctor MN to T bird North) 68 miles. Minntac sub (Wolf to Minntac plant itself) 8 miles. Keenan sub (keenan to BNSF connection) 20 miles. There was also some trackage that was ripped up, such as the line out of Alborn MN that went to Hibbing MN (25 miles) Bear creek (Superior wisconsin) to the top of steelton hill where it connects to the missabe sub is about 20 miles that is still used, just not by the Missabe. All in all youre talking about 250-300 miles of mainline at one time. There were many little mines that the railroad serviced along its original route so operations wise it can be a stunning little railroad.
But someone mentioned earlier that Modeling companies may not get back what they spend on painting and detailing these engines just for the simple fact that there is a very small community for it. And what is made is typically expensive. Myself being an O scaler, to purchase a Yellowstone from Precision scale would cost me $4500.00. And most of the Missabe people I know live in Duluth, MN.
It was a stunning railroad at one time with industries basically every 10 miles along the railroad. Keenan taking in all commercial work (Hoppers and tank cars for the mines and bomb plants) Along the Iron range sub you had major pick up and setout points at Sparta, Biwabik, Allen jct, Skybo, and waldo before dropping down into Two Harbors. On the Missabe Sub you had, (north to south) Minntac and Minorca and Fairlane ore plants, Keenan, Alborn, and proctor being the major ore classification yard were trains would either go down to docks 5 and 6, steelton, or interchange with railroads at rices point.
The lines that disappeared where the Alborn connection from Hibbing where multiple tac plants and commercial setouts were made and the major tac plant at Hibbing. The Ely line, that only has about 12 miles of track left, is used for interchange with the North shore mining railroad which is one of the smallest railroads in northern Minnesota. The ely line serviced the towns up to Ely MN where the railroad at the time was the only life line. That portion of the railroad was ripped out sometime in the late 50s or 60s... cant quite remember. Its now called W11. There was a line out of Sparta, that split off and went through virgina and I believe connected with tower MN and Ely again. Thats been gone for sometime as well.
90% of the small industries are gone as well, with only the major tac plants being serviced. But now you know why its not as looked at as some railroads. As impressive as it was, the modeling community for it is small and far between so those who do model it are scratch building there own models.
It’s likely modelers of every road, other than the Union Pacific, New York Central; or, Pennsylvania RR feel that their chosen line is under represented!
Therefore, it is important to be able to re-detail, paint and decal locomotives and cabooses for your chosen line. It appears to me that in today’s day and age, people seem uninterested in acquiring these skills! However, I find doing so is a part of the fun of being a MODEL railroader!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
As of 26 December 2014 there's an Athearn DM&IR SD45 T-2 HO scale locomotive for sale on e-Bay.
Modeling Avery, Idaho 1971
P48 O scale
I guess Cederwood Ron's post was a joke as he used to live in Minnesota and made many trips to Duluth and knew full well how big railroading is/was to the area.
Redore, I agree, to underestimate the importance to American industry of any of lines you mention, is a demonstration in how little is known about the hard core railroading which took place in North Eastern Minnesota. Turnabout is fair play and I will freely admit to not knowing much about what is/was going on out east, as I simply lack interest. However, I’m not stupid enough to belittle what happens in any of these great United States! My interests in railroading are all in the west, however.
Sure ore trains look alike. So do passenger trains, coal trainbs, oil trains, intermodal, log trains, and subways.
Keeping track of those hundreds of ore cars is an operator's dream (or nightmare!)
Missabe in particular interchanged with CN, GN, NP, Soo, Milwaukee, and CNW, all in Duluth-Superior. Their online industries include everything from explosives to sawmills to a steel mill and all manner of commercial businesses. Their main lines were intertwined with GN and CN's DWP, joining up, splitting off, crossing over, and crossing at grade in many locations.
Traffic was heavy, trains were long and pushed the limits of railroad technology at the time, and the locomotives were huge. Their lines ranged from the heaviest of double track CTC main lines to two streaks of rust through the weeds.
And I'm really more of a GN ore operations fan.
NP2626 If the following video doesn't do anything for you, you may not have a pulse! http://mrv.trains.com/videos/layout-visits/2013/02/video-jeff-ottos-ho-scale-missabe-northern-ry
If the following video doesn't do anything for you, you may not have a pulse!
Rich
Alton Junction
cedarwoodron Besides, once you've seen the Split Rock Lighthouse and the ore docks, other than a little fishing- what else are you gonna do in Duluth, Sherman? Cedarwoodron
Besides, once you've seen the Split Rock Lighthouse and the ore docks, other than a little fishing- what else are you gonna do in Duluth, Sherman?
Cedarwoodron
The "Missabe" was a railroad primarily built to haul iron ore (and later, taconite- low grade ore) to the portside loading docks in Duluth, for shipment to the manufacturing centers- Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, etc. Ore cars- identically alike, unless various road names were mixed in, were the dominant makeup of each train, either full en route to the docks or empty, returning to the mining range areas. Not a lot of visual "flash" there. Great Northern also served the Duluth and northeastern Minnesota area- with trains of mixed content.
"Hundreds of thousands" isn't a lot of tourists, really. Minnesota is a fairly low population, low density area that most of the country sees as a snowswept tundra full of Scandinavians watching hockey and ice fishing.
tomikawaTT Going all the way back to the OP's original statement: Imagine if you grew up with one picket fence between your back door and the Podunk and Northern, in an area where the entire population wouldn't fully fill the Rose Bowl. Would it surprise you that models of P&N #10 (2-8-0, Baldwin catalog loco built 1896) are, to put it kindly, uncommon? While the DM&IR had some noteworthy locomotives and some interesting infrastructure, northeastern Minnesota is neither a major metropolitan area nor a major tourist destination. To most people, it's rather like Antarctica - we know it's there, but we seldom think about it in general, never mind in detail. For that matter, I doubt that anyone notices that the Six Companies Railroad isn't modeled, even though it had some interesting infrastructure and rolling stock, and, for its rather brief existence, very heavy traffic. Of course, it was located in the approximate heart of nowhere, and I doubt that the locals, all of whom were busy building Boulder (now Hoover) Dam, ever gave it much thought. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - not far from the heart of nowhere)
Going all the way back to the OP's original statement:
Imagine if you grew up with one picket fence between your back door and the Podunk and Northern, in an area where the entire population wouldn't fully fill the Rose Bowl. Would it surprise you that models of P&N #10 (2-8-0, Baldwin catalog loco built 1896) are, to put it kindly, uncommon?
While the DM&IR had some noteworthy locomotives and some interesting infrastructure, northeastern Minnesota is neither a major metropolitan area nor a major tourist destination. To most people, it's rather like Antarctica - we know it's there, but we seldom think about it in general, never mind in detail.
For that matter, I doubt that anyone notices that the Six Companies Railroad isn't modeled, even though it had some interesting infrastructure and rolling stock, and, for its rather brief existence, very heavy traffic. Of course, it was located in the approximate heart of nowhere, and I doubt that the locals, all of whom were busy building Boulder (now Hoover) Dam, ever gave it much thought.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - not far from the heart of nowhere)
You can't be serious... Northeastern Minnesota is one of the premier tourist destinations in the Midwest... hundreds of thousands of people come to the area in the summer months...
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
The Bessemer/Missabe 2-10-4's were offered as Japanese-built brass locomotives around the 1960's, and they sometimes show up on the used market. Missabe's ex-Union R. R. 0-10-2's were produced by United (P.F.M.) around the same time. Heavy U.S.R.A. 2-10-2's, as used by Bessemer, have been available from several sources in both brass and plastic over the years. Bessemer had another class of 2-10-2's that bore a superficial resemblance to B&O's 2-10-2's, but they have never been produced as commercial models. Bessemer's 0-8-0's looked like USRA 0-8-0's on steroids. They were larger in all dimensions, but looked similar. Bessemer's very numerous 2-8-0's were not quite like any other 2-8-0's so it would be quite a job to model one. But they had a unique appeal, heightened by the fact that so very many Pa. shortlines bought them and used them second-hand.
The above post is the epitome of “Big Town Chauvinism”!
Simply put, the allies would not have won the second World War without the hard work and effort of the of the miners mining the Iron Ore in North Eastern Minnesota, the railroads and shipping companies hauling this ore to the processers at the mills in the east, to make steel from. The reality is that the mining of Minnesota Iron Ore was one of THE most important industries in the world.
Why is it, in today’s day and age, does this mentality that “I live in the East, so we're the best” come from? I’m a Texan and everyone knows everything is big in Texas! The West is the BEST! Who CARES?
While it is certainly true that North East Minnesota is less populated than Japan; or, NY, NY, this area and its’ industries where/are significantly important! And, thank you very much for the less populated!
If your premise is correct that railroads operating in the huge metropolitan areas are the most popular, why does the big Western lines seem to be so popular; or, the Narrow Gauge lines which operate through some of the most sparcly populated areas?
Of course a manufacturer's right to market items it feels will sell well, is without question here. To state that as the reason that a particular line is not well represented, would be fine. The rest is simply editorializing, meaningless and less than friendly!
tomikawaTT While the DM&IR had some noteworthy locomotives and some interesting infrastructure, northeastern Minnesota is neither a major metropolitan area nor a major tourist destination. To most people, it's rather like Antarctica - we know it's there, but we seldom think about it in general, never mind in detail.
Ah, but at the same time, the DM&IR Texans were second hand from the B&LE, which did serve a major metropolitan area and funneled iron ore into the steel capital of America. Bessemer's fleet of Texans represented one of the largest fleets of 2-10-4s around, which would make it more reasonable that B&LE Texans are available and a minor redecaling makes them DM&IR. Only the PRR and T&P had more of them. There's no shortage of OTHER B&LE power on the market (for instance, the Athearn SD45T-2s, which is a miniscule fleet of less than seven), which does make the lack of a suitable Texan for the DM&IR curious.
The question really is "why isn't there a B&LE Texan, which can be used as a DM&IR Texan?"
richhotrain NP2626 cacole NP2626, Spell Missabe correctly when you search, and you may get better results. Actually no, as Ebay caught my mistake and corrected the spelling. Right now there are 52 itesm for Duluth Missabe & Iron Range. I get 267 results. Rich
NP2626 cacole NP2626, Spell Missabe correctly when you search, and you may get better results. Actually no, as Ebay caught my mistake and corrected the spelling. Right now there are 52 itesm for Duluth Missabe & Iron Range.
cacole NP2626, Spell Missabe correctly when you search, and you may get better results.
NP2626,
Spell Missabe correctly when you search, and you may get better results.
Actually no, as Ebay caught my mistake and corrected the spelling. Right now there are 52 itesm for Duluth Missabe & Iron Range.
I get 267 results.
At this moment, I have a search at Ebay that is showing 104 results and although my criteria states HO, there are Lionel tin plate O-27, N Scale and S scale items included. I did another search just now using everything the same and I get 52 results! So, search results vary from minute to minute! There were even 2 Yellowstones which showed up in the above searches: One is a Precision Scale model for $4,500.00 and the other by MTH for $1,199.95
Actually no, as Ebay caught my mistake and corrected the spelling. Right now there are 52 items for Duluth Missabe & Iron Range.
If you were to model the DMIR in the steam/diesel transition era (which for the Missabe was 1953-60), you could get by without doing brass steam engines, or maybe just one or two. As noted the Spectrum DMIR 2-10-2 could be used, and the Walthers Proto 0-8-0 is pretty close to engines the Missabe had. Add in some DMIR SD-9s, GN and BLE F-units (all available RTR), plus maybe add a Proto RDC-3 (decals available from the Missabe Road Hist. Soc.) and EMD end cab switchers (SW-7s IIRC?) and your motive power would be good for an average home layout. Over time you could add a couple of brass engines to that.
Walthers makes DMIR "Minnesota" ore cars and the wood DMIR caboose, a couple of companies make DMIR extended-vision cabooses that were I believe developed specifically for the Missabe in 1952. Accurail and one or two other manufacturers have made DMIR freight cars.
A look through Ebay this morning with the search criteria being: Duluth Messabi & Iron Range produced 39 results, mostly Ore Cars. However there where some diesel locos, Proto 2000 SD-9s, an SD-45T2 and a RS-15.
Missabemodeler I was raised on the Iron Range of Minnesota. Many of the DM&IR locos passed 50 yards behind my boyhood home. I wonder if any other modelers have noticed how under represented the DM&IR is both in Publications and models. The DM&IR Yellowstones (almost impossible to find) were on a par with the B&O EM1s, The N&W Y6Bs & As and the UP Big Boys. The DM&IR S6 and S7 switchers were some of the largest switch engines ever built. The DM&IR carried more iron ore than The Great Northern, Soo Line or any other railroad. On its last day of service one DM&IR Yellowstone hauled 190 loaded ore cars to the docks in Duluth. Does anyone else wonder why this railroad is so under represented.
I was raised on the Iron Range of Minnesota. Many of the DM&IR locos passed 50 yards behind my boyhood home. I wonder if any other modelers have noticed how under represented the DM&IR is both in Publications and models. The DM&IR Yellowstones (almost impossible to find) were on a par with the B&O EM1s, The N&W Y6Bs & As and the UP Big Boys. The DM&IR S6 and S7 switchers were some of the largest switch engines ever built. The DM&IR carried more iron ore than The Great Northern, Soo Line or any other railroad. On its last day of service one DM&IR Yellowstone hauled 190 loaded ore cars to the docks in Duluth. Does anyone else wonder why this railroad is so under represented.
I feel your pain, buddy! I model the Northern Pacific and at this time, I believe only one steam locomotive is available for my line, the USRA 0-8-0 from Walthers Proto. Did you know that the N.P. rented DMIR's Yellowstones during the winter when they would have been idle? I've heard all kinds of reasons why the N.P. is not very well represented, you will (and have) heard some of the same reasons. You have had some runs of DM&IR cabooses by Walthers. I would keep an eye out at Ebay and big hobby shops like Caboose Hobbies for brass locos. With the high prices of production plastic locos, the price differences between brass and plastic isn't very much, anymore.
I just looked through Ebay and Caboose and you are rightm there was very little available.
A number of years ago was having one of my GN.steamers professionally painted and my painter knowing my weakness for articulateds asked if I be interested in a DM&IR Yellowstone? (Akane 1960-62)
said don't know let's see it.
feller brought it out and it was the saddest thing i ever did see. previous owner must of painted it with a 4" brush and a can of black house paint.
Asked'em how much ya gotta have for it........said $250
says me' tell Ya what.......you repainted the way I want it and if I like it I'll give $350. Feller says ok.
thinking back on it now it's been over 20 years and Queen (my name for her) still has her warm spot near the top of my roster.
was just in the back shop for upgrading for DCC and sound (Tsunami heavy steam)
couldn"t sell her now anymore than I could my wife :)
As someone who's been doing it since the 1980's, I'd love to see iron ore modeling become more popular. It's a different type of railroading; I've seen "iron ore" layouts that are basically coal hauling railroads only using ore cars. It's not really the same, coal tended to have more but smaller shippers, some places only loading a few cars at a time. Iron ore roads tended to run 30-40 car trains from the marshalling yards to the mines / loading areas (which would be a great model railroad theme), then back to the yards to make up the huge mainline trains. Plus of course, natural ore operations are different from taconite operations. Taconite trains tend to operate as unit-trains, often with balloon tracks so no switching of cars is needed; also, many ore docks have been converted to conveyor belt operation so cars are no longer taken out on the dock to be dumped.
I think ore and steel roads are on their way to becoming the next big niche. Coal roads are really played out at this point. I love the DM&IR almost as much as the GN, and it's not just the Yellowstones. The Twin Ports have awesome modeling opportunities that include interchanges and other bulk goods. A number of plastic models have come out recently and modeling the post steam era would not be hard. Just be patient, more prototypical models are coming every year!
Keep in mind the drivers on BLI's C&O 2-10-4 are several inches undersized, I believe 66" diameter, so they're actually part way between the C&O and DMIR engines. Obviously there are differences between the two engines. But if your primary goal was modeling the DMIR in say 1955, painting / decorating a couple of BLI 2-10-4s for the Missabe (and perhaps adding or changing a couple of details) may be more "realistic" financially than buying a couple of brass engines that are exactly correct (and probably don't run near as well).
Sometimes it comes down to whether you're looking at the model as a "memory model" or a "photo model". If you took a stock BLI engine and painted and lettered it for the DMIR, many people looking at the model that were familiar with the DMIR engines would say it looked 'right'. Sure, if you took a photo of the prototype and compared it to the model, you could find some discrepancies. It wouldn't be a contest model or anything, but could be a good working model on a layout.
The Missabe's 2-10-2s were USRA engines, so the Spectrum version is correct for the engines "as built", except that it's lettered for the DMIR...which didn't exist until 1938 (well technically late 1937). By the time the engines were lettered DMIR, they'd had some additional appliances applied to them - but those wouldn't be hard to add if you wanted to. You'd have to do a little research (like Frank King's books) because different Missabe engines had different appliances added or removed at different times, so didn't all look alike.
I have always enjoyed all of the Iron Ore Roads. I have been waiting for 15 years for someone to make a Missabe Yellowstone, it would be a great addition to my collection. I have a proto 2000 SD-9, Athearn SD-40T-2 (I believe this is suppose to replicate a rebuild program that Missabe had before CN bought them), I have a custom painted athearn SD-38, and I painted a SOO SD40-2 to be a Missabe patch job. It is still white and red, but with a yellow Missabe arrow and the Messabe safety seal on the long hood. I also have the Bachamm 2-10-2, which is a light puller but a good engine.
My iron ore car fleet has all type of roads represented, most of the fleet is BN, Missabe, and LS&I. However I have some old Roundhouse cars painted for B&O and C&O. I know the real roads don't usually interchange or have other ore cars on their roads nor do they mix Mich and Minn type cars. Oh well, I'm like my layout.
It's worth pointing out that while the DMIR hauled mainly ore, it also hauled a lot of lumber and pulpwood, and it had a fair amount of what it called "commercial" (i.e., general freight) traffic. In addition, there were joint trackage operations with Great Northern's own very impressive ore operation. I can think of ways to design a very interesting small-to-medium layout based on the joint operation, which would involve DMIR SDs and GN and B&LE Fs, so curves to handle articulateds wouldn't be needed.
In fact, I think you could start with something a lot like the MR Virginian project layout, flattening out the scenery a little.
Single-commodity railroads like the DM&IR hava a built-in limitation to their appeal because there is a fairly consistent sameness to their operations from day to day. However, the impressive nature of Missabe's 2-8-8-4's alone would seem to offset that limitation in many people's eyes. Maybe somebody will produce a Missabe 2-8-8-4 some day, but it could be a long wait.
If you really want one of the Missabe's Mallets, you might start by putting a Centipede tender behind a Bachmann B&O EM-1 and changing the engine's details to suit. The boiler would be slightly small, but probably not enough to ruin the effect. If you want the articulation to be more like that of the prototype, you might start with a turned-around Intermountain Cab Forward instead, although mods to the engine might be a major nightmare. Heck, you could do two engines, one with Worthington and one with Elesco feedwater heater.
I can almost guarantee that the day after you finish the project, you'll read that some manufacturer plans to produce the engine in your scale, cheaper than the cost of your rebuild.