When rear-end helper engines are used, do they always get coupled to the train they are pushing? Or is there some way they can push without being coupled? I seem to remember seeing videos of helper units slowing down and stopping while the assisted train kept on moving and pulled away.
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
They pretty much need to be coupled to the train. The issue is brake air. I suppose you could push with the pin pulled and the only air hoses hooked up, but then you risk going into emergency when a little slack might break the gladhands apart.
Rear end pushers can cut off on the fly though, depending on the practices and rules of the specific RR. After closing the valve on the air lines, the pin can be pulled, separating the helper from the train ahead. Works well with a caboose providing a handy platform to accomplish this on in conjunction with a crew member on the front platform of the helper.
Obviously, this won't work with a FRED. Also doesn't work with swing helpers, where a helper is cut into the train, usually about two-thirds of the way back in the train consist in Rio Grande practice, often in conjunction with a rear helper. Tennessee Pass was handled this way. The whole process of cutting in the helpers, then cutting them back out again, makes for interesting railroading. I have a helper district on my layout that lets me replicate these practices. Cutting off on the fly kinda shortcuts the need for this sort of choreography in steel.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Yes they are always coupled. If they weren't then if there was any slack or movement it could pull the train away from the helper engines putting the train in emergency (not all helper districts are continuously uphill all the way.)
Normally what you have seen is somebody uncoupling the engines on the fly.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
CSX_road_slug I seem to remember seeing videos of helper units slowing down and stopping while the assisted train kept on moving and pulled away.
That was done by uncoupling on the fly(move) .The slack was ran in and a brakeman would uncouple the pusher from the caboose by lifting the uncoupling bar from the platform on the caboose.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Thank you all for the replies!
BRAKIEThat was done by uncoupling on the fly(move) .The slack was ran in and a brakeman would uncouple the pusher from the caboose by lifting the uncoupling bar from the platform on the caboose.
That's sort of what I suspected.
I want to simulate rear-end helpers [no mid-trains] during some of my op sessions, and I figured it would be easier on the primary and helper engineers if they didn't have to worry about perfectly synchronizing their loco speeds. No worries about stringlining - the rear helper could simply stop and let the train continue on its way.
One of my senior guest operators says I should always leave them coupled because it adds an element of 'benign challenge' into the run, i.e. keeps the crews occupied a minute or two longer; another friend says I should avoid helper service entirely because its too risky. I personally have learned how to run both sets of engines myself simultaneously with a throttle in each hand, by using a dummy coupler on the leading helper engine so that it doesn't grab the caboose.
State law comes into play here. I don't know the current law, but Ohio used to have a law prohibiting helpers from pushing on the rear of an occupied caboose. Since the railroads didn't want to tie up the mainline attaching helpers ahead of the caboose at the bottom of the grade and removing them at the top, the usual practice was to have everybody vacate the caboose and ride the helper engine. Since those employees had to reboard the caboose in order to continue their run, and since they couldn't do so while the train was moving, it became necessary to come to a full stop to uncouple at the top of the grade.
In places where it was legal to uncouple on the fly, the pin was generally pulled by one of the men on the caboose, although it could have been done from the pilot beam of a steam engine or the end platform of a diesel hood unit.
If your model helper operation always uses the same helper engine(s), a frequently-used approach is to simply remove the knuckle from your pusher's coupler. That makes it easy to detach your helper anywhere, whether you stop the train or not.
I don't know about current NS operations, but some Conrail locomotives used for pusher service had electrically operated couplers. The helper engineer or conductor could press a button to uncouple from the train without having to stop.
pajrrI don't know about current NS operations, but some Conrail locomotives used for pusher service had electrically operated couplers.
Yes NS locomotives in the pusher pool is equipped with this device.
Maybe this will help.
---------------------------------------------------------------
By Habtech Holding corporation.
BRAKIEBy Habtech Holding corporation. wireless uncoupling system for pusher locomotive cut off on the fly from road trains,
Interesting. I presume this wireless link is encrypted? Otherwise, it would be a tempting target for hackers
ACYIf your model helper operation always uses the same helper engine(s), a frequently-used approach is to simply remove the knuckle from your pusher's coupler. That makes it easy to detach your helper anywhere, whether you stop the train or not.
Yep - that's exactly what I did!
...but I guess I'll still have to learn [and have my operators learn] how to synchronize loco speeds for a full stop.
Larry, I think those NS WiFi couplers might be a bit too modern for my era [1970]...
CSX_road_slugLarry, I think those NS WiFi couplers might be a bit too modern for my era [1970]...
Cool..The caboose era..A brakeman would pull the pin like I mention.
Some cabooses had a handle above the lift bar that lifted the uncoupling pin..Not sure about N&W cabooses...
ACYI don't know the current law, but Ohio used to have a law prohibiting helpers from pushing on the rear of an occupied caboose.
IIRC that was for wood cabooses..
I've seen PRR Js pushing on a cabin as they help push a Sandusky bound coal drag out of PennNor yard in Columbus..The pusher was cut off at Worthington(a suburb of Columbus).
In Pennsylvania, the Public Utility Commission required that the train crew not occupy the caboose when the horsepower to be used by the pusher exceeded 3500HP.
Timetable Special Instructions would be a good place to look for this kind of information.
Brakie, I'm sure the Ohio law applied to all cabooses, no matter whether they had steel frames or not. After the early 1920's, I don't think PRR or B&O (for example) had any cabooses working in Ohio without a steel underframe. The law did not prohibit pushing against cabooses per se. It prohibited pushing on OCCUPIED cabooses. That's why the crew rode the engine. Those PRR cabin cars were unoccupied. I don't think pushing on a caboose was prohibited for a local freight doing a switching move because there was not another working engine at the other end, so the local engine wasn't considered a helper.
Ok..Maybe there wan't anybody riding the cabin as I thought-the pusher had a cabin too but,5 men crew was the norm in the 50s and I allowed that was for the pusher crew.I was a kid when I watch the various shows at the Cleveland Ave yards.This yard was large and contained several smaller yards..
I watch the yard action from one of the many MOW access roads including one by the roundhouse..
Sometimes the crew on the helper would place a block of wood to hold the pin open. Then when the shove was done all the helper had to do was brake.
Larry ---
The law might have been changed at some point, but I don't know about that. I was just a little too young to appreciate what was going on when B&O Mikado pushers were working the eastbound grade out of Akron. I knew they were there, but wasn't alert to those details. Somebody told me you can't go back. I guess that's one reason I took up modeling.
Tom
ACY Larry --- The law might have been changed at some point, but I don't know about that. I was just a little too young to appreciate what was going on when B&O Mikado pushers were working the eastbound grade out of Akron. I knew they were there, but wasn't alert to those details. Somebody told me you can't go back. I guess that's one reason I took up modeling. Tom
Tom,I don't know..Maybe the outbound crew was in the pusher's cabin.
A pusher was unusual out of PenNor..Usually these coal drags was doubleheaded to Worthington where the helper would cut off.The line between PenNor and Worthington was on a constant grade.
There was lots of stack talk when 2 J1s lifted a 150 car N&W coal drag out of PenNor bound for the coal dock at Sandusky..Some times these coal drags was doubleheaded all the way to Sandusky.
Wish I had a time machine.
NS pushers on the Whitethorne Dist. used an all pneumatic device they called an "Octopus". The pin pulling was activated by the pusher engineer by pressing down on the independent brake handle as in bailing off the brakes. And yes, an EOT was already installed.
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