Although a loco servicing approach track coal tower/hoist was originally planned for my layout, I'm now thinking that these delicate/tall structures might be better located on a Roundhouse garden/whisker track rather than in the main yard where operators with skewers might break them.
Was it common on major r.r.s to have a coal tower/cinder hoist located on a garden track. It would neccesitate the use of the turntable for every use of the coaling tower so wondered if this occured very often. It's a small/medium layout so the extra time this would take might be welcomed, but I kinda doubt prototypes would take the time and run the table this much. What do you guys think?
I've seen a few prototype examples but they were usually secondary to the approach/departure engine servicing track towers/hoists. I've only found one which used the t.t. to get to the tower so far.
Thanks,
Jim
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
It was not common. You can probably find an example but you will have to wade through a whold bunch of facilites where the servicing facilites were on the approach tracks to the turntable. I personally can't think of an example like what you are proposing.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
In a word, no.
Having to move the locomotive to a specific radial track just to refuel or top off bunkers, then back onto the turntable to get to a ready track, is horribly inefficient. Prototype facilities designers strove for maximum efficiency, which is why, in later years, the ideal was straight-through servicing. As a result, many coaling stations were located seemingly in the heart of the yard. Likewise, ash pits were located on thoroughfare tracks. When the N&W introduced the 'lubritorium' to locomotive turning those, too, were located on through tracks.
In more than a few locations, the coaling facility straddled the main line well away from the turntable.
Or, you could convert to oil-fired locos. Then all you would have would be oil and water columns in the service area, and no need for ash pits. Of course, modern sanding facilities are tall and fragile...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with coal platforms and people with shovels)
Thanks. That's what I've gathered from books, DVDs and classic trains magazine, etc. I understand the need for maximum speed and efficiency.
I've seen several model railroad layout plans with a coal tower on a radial/garden track and know a couple of layout owners who hold sessions who've done this, so began to wonder if I just hadn't happened across a prototype photo or description yet.
I've got to decide how much breakage (elimination?!) I'll be willing to risk for protype accuracy. Maybe I can come up with an aisle side plexiglass shield, but that may be even more in the way and I was hoping to avoid that. Mount the tower's base on springs? I usually lie awake nights not using protype practices whenever possible so back to the drawing board.
I recommend "Steam and Diesel Locomotive Terminals and Service Facilities" by Thomas W. Dixon, Jr. TLC Pub. to anyone who hasn't seen it. For the photos alone. If anyone here owns an operations based (sessions) layout I'd be glad to hear how you've avoided elbow disasters with your towers, hoists, cranes, etc. if on the tracks closest to your aisles.
Thanks again.
From what I recall of a Missouri Pacific steam servicing facility in my home town way, way back in the 1940's and '50's, the coaling tower, water spouts, sanding tower, and ash pit were along a service track siding, and the turntable was totally separate from them and used only for turning locomotives after they had been serviced.
The turntable itself was the end of a separate siding.
ndprr,
I thought about that, but with the t.t. and r.h. and all it just seemed unlikely not to have coaling taking place in the yard. I could easily find a place for a tower and hoist up in the industrial yard across the room in the terminal station (Walthers Milwaukee Station) yard but near the t.t./r.h. seems to make the most sense, or else why have the t.t./shop, etc. there in the lst place.
I'm from N.J. originally so it's cool to hear what went on at Camden/Wildwood. Except for the Greenwood Lake line (Erie/Lackawanna) across the street from my ancestral home I didn't explore rail fanning in the Garden State as much as I would have liked to, being too young to drive most of those years. Just reading up these days (in WA State) to learn what I missed in my home state.
thanks Cacole. I think that the photo I saw was a similar situ-ation (pardon the pun). I likely assumed it was a radial track off the t.t. not realizing back then, that the stub wasn't connected to the t.t. but exactly as you remembered form your home town.
By the way, I've moved some of this (the original question) to the layout building thead for the weekend, thinking I might get more/different responses from people who hold sessions there. So, if it's more proper, we can keep the prototype info here and the modeling info. there if responders think that more appropriate...
Thanks, Jim
Many different arrangements have been used.
At Coleville, PA, the Bellefonte Central RR's mainline ran roughly north-south, and a road ran diagonally across the track. The rectangular engine house/shop was in the northeast quadrant of the grade crossing, with the coal dock near its entry doors; the water tank (with spout) was directly across the mainline from the enginehouse, but there were standpipes on the enginehouse side. The turntable was in the southwest quadrant of the grade crossing. Engines had to cross the road and the mainline in order to access it.
The Ohio River & Western had an enginehouse in Woodsfield, Ohio on the east side of town. To get to the turntable, the engines ran through a short tunnel under the town's main street.
In Akron, Ohio, the B&O turned its engines on a wye next to the enginehouse. Eastwood Avenue crossed the engine service tracks a short distance north of the enginehouse & wye, and the concrete coal dock was located on the other side of Eastwood.
In England, it was very common for the turntable to be located in a place that was not contiguous with the enginehouse. I'm speculating here when I say I think the Brits wanted to avoid a situation in which a failure of the turntable might bring all operations to a halt. The typical U.S. arrangement with the t.t. in front of the roundhouse means it was needed by every engine that needs access to the roundhouse.
Your proposed arrangement with the coaling facility on a radial track, with access completely dependent on t.t. access, would be highly unusual, and I'm not aware of a precedent. The logical reason is that any mechanical problems with the turntable would mean no locomotive has access to coal --- a pretty serious and disruptive situation.
That said, I would never claim it didn't happen somewhere.
Thank you ACY! I love hearing about the various prototype settings in various yards on various roads. It's my intent to find a prototypically accurate (or at least much more feasible) location so the radial track approach is off...the table.