Thanx for all the input.
7j43k There was a discussion on the SP&S Yahoo list on the subject. It did happen. There was presented a list of locomotive consists for June and July of 1957 between Wishram and Klamath Falls (a 1.5% ruling grade). On scanning the list, I noted that this sort of thing happened. I don't have a comprehensive list of DB/non-DB for the locos on the list, so I can't work up the proportion now. I'm going to put some effort into the matter, and hope to get some numbers later. Ed
There was a discussion on the SP&S Yahoo list on the subject. It did happen.
There was presented a list of locomotive consists for June and July of 1957 between Wishram and Klamath Falls (a 1.5% ruling grade). On scanning the list, I noted that this sort of thing happened. I don't have a comprehensive list of DB/non-DB for the locos on the list, so I can't work up the proportion now.
I'm going to put some effort into the matter, and hope to get some numbers later.
Ed
OK. I got interested in the data. And I could put off working a little while. Win-win.
For the two months, there were 123 SP&S trains. They were typically 4 unit consists--more later. Of those, 49 had one or more non-DB units in the consist.
In June:
Of 62 consists, all were four unit except one three unit.
In the downhillhill direction, ALL non-DB units were trailing--11 out of 29 consists.
In the uphill direction, there were 8 non-DB leading and 4 trailing out of 33 trains.
All non-DB units were end (A) units. None of the middle units were non-DB
In July:
Of 61 consists, all were four unit except 28 were three unit and two were 2 unit.
In the downhill direction, five of the 30 trains had leading units w/o DB's (quite a difference from June)--total of 14 out of 30 had one or more non-DB.
In the uphill direction, 10 out of 31 trains had non-DB leading.
Train weights were given. I didn't notice that the non-DB trains were any lighter than full DB trains. There were also GN trains on the line. They were ALWAYS assigned DB equipped GP9's.
The SP&S locos tended to be Alco F's, generally laid out in neat ABBA sets. But sometimes the B's were A's, instead. And GP9's and Alco RS's showed up occasionally, too.
Note that in June, the consists for the downhill direction were laid out perfectly for optimum DB useage. And for uphill, it doesn't matter; since DB's won't be used. The July downhill consists WERE NOT set up nicely, on occasion. It seems like different people were doing the consisting month to month.
The CNW got the gp30's from the CGW when they bought them out. 8 gp30's and 9 sd40's from the CGW had dynamics. The CNW ran them with all sorts of locomotives, most did not have dynamics. The engineers were instructed not to use dynamics, but the engineers would anyway. As they got more and more cozy with the UP they started buying locos with dynamics. As to connections I have no idea about that.
To the OP: Try posting your question on the "Trains Magazine" forum where real railroaders hang out and see what they have to say about modifying a non-dynamic locomotive to control one with dynamics.
It happened all the time on the MoPac, the cvast majority of engines did not have DB. The only blue engines bought with DB were the 6000 series SD40-2's that were bought to be used with BN coal trains serving utilities on MP terrritories. So pretty much any foreign line engine had DB or any time a MP engine was off line, the engines were mixed DB & non-DB.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
What I wonder is how often DB and non-DB units were actually mixed in practice. If a railroad had the same model locomotive boith with and without DB, there was usually a reason - different service, or different territory. Like the Reading, having DBs on the freight GP7's, but no DB on the passenger GP7's. Or say a railroad with different divisions, one with hilly terrain using locos with DBs, and a flatland division where they saved money and didn;t get DBs. There may be occasional reason to mix locos across the divisions, but I'd think in normal every day operation this wouldn't happen a whole lot.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
A non equipped unit can be made to control a trailing DB equipped unit if the railroad wants to throw enough time and money at the project. I don't know of any case where that happened, but it certainly could have. On the other hand the fact that there aren't many (or any) known examples would lead us to believe the railroads did not want to spend the time/money.
There are (as mentioned) roads that did equip some of their non db units with "DB pass through" capability so as to operate between DB equipped units.
Dick Haave
cacole 7j43k I think it possible to put DB controls in a non-DB loco, and operate the DB's in trailing units. But I don't know of that actually being done. No, it's not possible without a major renovation of the non-dynamic locomotive's electrical system. Dynamic brakes are controlled by a separate lever similar to the throttle lever on most locomotives.
7j43k I think it possible to put DB controls in a non-DB loco, and operate the DB's in trailing units. But I don't know of that actually being done.
I think it possible to put DB controls in a non-DB loco, and operate the DB's in trailing units. But I don't know of that actually being done.
No, it's not possible without a major renovation of the non-dynamic locomotive's electrical system. Dynamic brakes are controlled by a separate lever similar to the throttle lever on most locomotives.
I don't see how such a renovation would be "major". The dynamics are controlled by signals sent through the MU connector. Install that separate lever in the leading (non-DB unit) and add the wiring from it out to the MU receptacles.
If a unit with dynamic brakes is consisted with one without dynamics, the dynamics on the unit so equipped will still function as usual with no effect on the other locomotive. The one with dynamics must be the lead unit; otherwise there will be no control over the dynamics.
Just read the post concerning my GP30 question, apparently CNW had both. Still would like a reply to the second question though.
I have an Atlas GP30 in PC colors #2193 that I would like to repaint into my Northwestern fleet. Did CNW roster gp30's with or without dynamic brakes? I cannot seem to find any photo's from above.
Also, when dynamic brake equipped units are consisted with units non-dynamic units is dynamic braking available on the units so equipped? I would imagine the lead unit must have them. I would like to run my Atlas GP30 and GP35 and GP40-2 as a permanent consist and I know CNW GP40's were dynamic brake equipped.
Thanx
Modeling BN and CNW in the late 70's midwest