Dining cars were sometimes picked up and set out during a train's run also. A train going east from city A to city B might have a dining car when it left city A in the morning so it could serve breakfast and lunch. If the train reached city B before supper time, the dining car might be set off somewhere along the line to be restocked, and then be picked up by an afternoon train from city B so that train could serve it's patrons supper while on their way to city A.
Trains also might drop off or pick up baggage cars loaded with sacked mail, or express reefers, along their run.
A train might split itself too. Even today, the westbound Amtrak Empire Builder splits in eastern Washington state, with part of the train going to Portland OR and the rest of the train continuing on to Seattle WA. Trains from Portland and Seattle heading east join up and become one train.
p.s. An interesting thing about setting out and picking up passenger cars is that often the passenger train crew couldn't do it - at least not if it was at a station within limits of a yard. A yard switcher would have to come out and move the cars around, including the road engines. That's because if the passenger train's crew switched cars while technically in the yard, they'd have to be paid for a day's work in the yard, plus their pay for running the passenger train.
Hi Marty- lots of great posts here. Great information, too. Looks like this is a pre WWII luxurious, overnight run (say 900 miles or so), or a Chicago to West Coast run. It could also be the same kind of run before the Depression given the apparent lack of air conditioning (roughly 1930's). In that case the consist as you indicate it would be great.
There is another interesting aspect to passenger train operations in this era and that is the "set outs" and "pick ups" at cities along the route. The Pullman system was famous for setting out its cars on a station siding in the middle of the night so that passengers could stay aboard that car until morining. Likewise, passengers could board their car at say 8pm and the car would be picked up when the train passed thru, again at some unholy hour. And sometimes a sleeper would be switched directly from one train into another so the sleeper could reach its ultimate destination.
You could model this easily with these cars, too. Probably without the observation car, the club car, and maybe one of the stateroom stateroom cars. The arrangement of the cars in the consist would then reflect the order in which the cars were removed from or added to the train (not all of those set outs and pick ups would be at the end of the train).
[quote user="Texas Zepher"]
7j43k Got me wondering. If yer waiting in line in the diner, you're in the aisle. And you can look out the window. Well, it's usually more scenic out those windows, what with not having to look through a passing train and all. That's 'cause if the waiting line is so long that it goes into the adjacent car (been there!), it'll go into the "cheep seats", not the high rollers.
If yer waiting in line in the diner, you're in the aisle. And you can look out the window. Well, it's usually more scenic out those windows, what with not having to look through a passing train and all.
That's 'cause if the waiting line is so long that it goes into the adjacent car (been there!), it'll go into the "cheep seats", not the high rollers.
??? On the trains I've been on there is no diner line. You let the porter know when you want to eat and they come and get you when a table is ready.
On the Amtrak Southwest Chief which I have taken cross country a dozen times during the last 7 or 8 years your sleeping car attendant asks you when you'd like to have dinner, then gives you a slip of paper with your time indicated. Then that evening, seating calls will be made on the public address system, e.g.: "All 7:30 diners now proceed to the dining car." Thus, sleeper passengers do not wait in line. (I don't know about coach passengers.)
John
KyleObservation cars where at the end.
*IF* the train has a tail-end lounge/observation car.
Generally only the flagship "name trains" did. Most regular trains, including overnight sleeper trains, would not have an observation car.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
The sleepers would tend to be in the back so they would be the furthest away from the noise of the locomotive. Baggage would be in the front right behind the locomotive, coachs would be behind baggage and in front of the dinner. Observation cars where at the end.
Some railroads may have been different.
Texas Zepher 7j43k Got me wondering. If yer waiting in line in the diner, you're in the aisle. And you can look out the window. Well, it's usually more scenic out those windows, what with not having to look through a passing train and all. That's 'cause if the waiting line is so long that it goes into the adjacent car (been there!), it'll go into the "cheep seats", not the high rollers. ??? On the trains I've been on there is no diner line. You let the porter know when you want to eat and they come and get you when a table is ready.
I suspect you were traveling first (sleeper) class. You quite likely didn't traverse the aisle at all, but were taken directly to your seat.
I, on the other hand, was traveling coach. And no one offered to come and get me for anything. Except, on occasion, a conductor might inform me my stop was soon. We coach passengers ambled rearward when the mood struck us. Sometimes, a table was immediately available. Sometimes there was a line. And, at least once, it went into the leading car.
In my travels on the rails in the US since 1960, I've only traveled by sleeper once. It was in 2003, and the porters were not too enthusiastic about doing much of anything, including arranging eats.
Ed
7j43kGot me wondering. If yer waiting in line in the diner, you're in the aisle. And you can look out the window. Well, it's usually more scenic out those windows, what with not having to look through a passing train and all. That's 'cause if the waiting line is so long that it goes into the adjacent car (been there!), it'll go into the "cheep seats", not the high rollers.
Either you'r modeling a train that has a super-important visual treat on one side of the tracks, or you're not.
The railroads arranged their trains as appropriate.
My understanding is the 20th Century ran their side-corridor sleepers so that the passengers would always see the Hudson River. So on a train going north from New York City (timetable west), the corridor would be on the right and the compartments on the left if you were facing in the direction of travel. Going south (turntable east) towards NYC, the compartments would be on the right as you faced the direction of travel. (I believe that would also mean the compartments would also be facing the Mohawk river west of Albany.)
"Turning" a train means more than turning it around to go the other direction; the Century was thoroughly cleaned, provisions loaded into the diner, clean linens and blankets brought in etc. so it took a number of hours. There was plenty of time to turn the observation or other cars that needed turning on a turntable while making up the next day's train. NYC considered the Century to be the finest train in the world, so did all they could to make it so.
So, what you're saying is the windows faced one way in one direction, and the other way in the other direction. How is this different from any other train?
If the berths always faced the river, turning the train must have been a real nightmare. Think about it... Turn the observation, but not the sleepers. And change ends with the head=end cars I'll just be a spectator for THIS operating session.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
Marty
The NYCs 20th Century Limited, an all Pullman train" ran with the berth windows on the side toward the water, as that is what people wanted to see" The Water Level Route" , not the other side of the train. They were on the water both East and West, so at least in one direction the berths were with their windows toward the other track. I don't know how long this lasted, but that is how it was earlier in the life of the 20th Century.
Paul
Dayton and Mad River RR (Model)
I'm noticing a lack of air conditioning ducting on the roof, so I'll do a ballpark of pre-WWII. If this had been a 14 or 16 section car, maybe later. But, it's not.
So, here is a sample picture of one of the cars. What years might a car like this have be run in a passenger train?
www.oakhurstrailroad.com
"Oakhurst Railroad" on Facebook
Nicely helpful information! Just what I was looking for.
Thanks,
ACY ...if the train is operated on double track with the typical right-hand running, the aisles of the sleepers were generally on the left side...the diner USUALLY had its kitchen end leading, although this was not always the case and I've never heard a reason for it.
...if the train is operated on double track with the typical right-hand running, the aisles of the sleepers were generally on the left side...the diner USUALLY had its kitchen end leading, although this was not always the case and I've never heard a reason for it.
I think "standard" diner layout puts the kitchen at the front left of the car, when it's in-train. Just as you note. That puts the aisle on the right side. As opposed to the left side, as for sleepers.
Got me wondering.
If yer waiting in line in the diner, you're in the aisle. And you can look out the window. Well, it's usually more scenic out those windows, what with not having to look through a passing train and all. Thus, it's more pleasant for the passengers. Plus, you can look out and see if you're going to pass your stop in the next few minutes and decide to skip the meal so that you can get off. If you apply the same reasoning for sleepers, the aisle then would be on the left.
But wait, there's more: Why is the diner aisle to the front?
Thus, the diner is normally run with the kitchen on the front left. Except when it's not, of course.
Three more things: In general, the diner should be positioned so that there are approximately the same number of passenger berths ahead of the diner as behind it. That equalizes the traffic through the diner. Secondly, if the train is operated on double track with the typical right-hand running, the aisles of the sleepers were generally on the left side so that trains coming from the other direction would have a slightly lower chance of waking sleeping passengers. The aisle was believed to put a bit more space, and an extra wall, between the passenger and the noisy train on the other track. Of course, section sleepers had the aisle down the middle, so the passenger just had to take his chaces. Third, the diner USUALLY had its kitchen end leading, although this was not always the case and I've never heard a reason for it. Some railroads followed these guidelines as closely as possible, while others were more casual about it.
If there were coaches, they would USUALLY go ahead of the diner, with sleepers behind. Seaboard's old streamlined Silver Meteor was one of many trains that had the coaches at the rear. But with no coaches on this train, that's not an issue. The club car likely was considered the gentlemen's smoking car, and it was placed at the head end as you have done. Chances are, it also had a barber shop. The lounge car goes right behind or ahead of the diner so it can serve as a comfortable place for passengers to wait if no tables are immediately available. The most expensive and luxurious accommodations would usually be closer to the diner. In general, this means the more sections in a car, the farther it will be from the diner, UNLESS the luxurious room is in the observation car, which obviously goes at the rear. The comfort of the service crew never entered into the equation. If a room was vacant, the porter (an outdated term because of racial implications) might be able to get a few winks, sitting up, fully clothed. His assigned rest area was a fold-down seat that projected into the aisle I'm not sure about the diner and lounge staff, but I don't think crew dormitories were provided until after the Unionization of these crafts. I've heard stories of crew members sleeping on dining car tables, but I don't know --- I wasn't there. These are general guidelines, and it's quite likely that you'll find lots of exceptions on different lines and different trains.
If you're running just sleepers (no coaches) the order would be pretty close to how you list them - baggage and combine/club car up front (on a real railroad, it probably would be used as a smoking car), the observation car at the end, and a diner between the sleepers. If the train had coaches, they would go ahead of the dining car.
I bought a really nice set of 13 heavyweight passenger cars at a swap meet. They are labeled for "California Southern Lines" which is a fictional model railroad from a club in Norwalk, California.
I don't have experience with Pullman passenger cars, but I'm learning what the nomenclature means.
So, my question is what is a realistic car order for these 13 cars?:
Baggage
Club (looks like a combine)
12-1 x1
10-1-2 x2
8-1-2 x3
Diner
3DR-6C x2
6B-B-L
4C-OBS