Troop Train Consists

[Anonymous]

Don't forget the Navy had to move personel as well as the Army and Marines. Upon completing basic training at Great Lakes a large number of new sailors were put on a troop train headed for the east coast and our first duty station. The cars that we rode in were very old coaches with very drafty windows that let in both cold air and soot and smoke from the loco. We sat in opposing seats and at night the seats were made flat and the overhead bunk was lowered to it's sleeping position. In the Navy the crewmen always slept head to foot it was always that way weather you were in boot camp, duty station, or on board ship.

Along with our own people acting as shore patrol each car had it's own civilian car attendant .They made a lot of money off us selling us sandwiches etc Yes we went to the galley car were our cooks provided hot meals which we ate at our seats
The train was devided into two parts. Half was going to Norfolk VA and my half was going to Newport RI and yes the baggage cars were sent to the wrong destinations. Try going across Naragansett bay the first week of March in a fifty foot moter launch with no pea coat.. I think it was just the last couple of years that I finally warmed up.

[cefinkjr]

Thanks to all for their replies. I learned a lot and several guesses were confirmed. Looks like modelling a representative troop train is almost a matter of anything goes. I say 'almost' because I realize that parlor cars, lounges, and observations would probably not be appropriate. On the other hand, how many times have I heard (and said) "There's a prototype for everything."?

As to the level of luxury on a troop train, I can well imagine it. I was lucky enough to have cruised the Pacific in USNS General John Pope (AP110) from Tacoma, WA to Qui Nohn, RVN in 1966. Five other junior officers and I shared about the same amount of space as two bedrooms in a 10-6 sleeper -- without the attached bathrooms.

Conversion of a baggage car to a troop kitchen car sounds like an interesting modeling project. I had known that baggage cars were forced into service as kitchen cars but this is the first time I've heard of any extensive modificiations for this purpose.

[Anonymous]

Additionally, C&O took some HW baggage/express cars and modified them into 56 (!) seat troop diners, complete with permanent kitchens and fold-up, very spartan tables and chairs. But no windows or doors except for the kitchen. Bizarre looking rolling stock. At least one of these, # 903 (converted from B/E #384) made it into postwar revenue service as a cafeteria car, still sans windows.

PRR also had several baggage cars outfitted as kitchen cars for troop train duty.

Generally, the mid-train bags were used as army field kitchens, with the unit being moved providing equipment and personnel. Troops took the food back to their seats to eat. Duffels, unloaded weapons and packs generally stayed with them in the assigned cars. But don't be fooled, if they were pulling guard duty, those weapons were loaded and they had orders to shoot to kill.

Also, a tremendous number of older 14S, 16S and 12-1 Pullmans were assigned to troop train service, and lots of enlisted personnel rode them. Space was alloted for 2men/lower berth with 1 man in the upper. Drawing room doors were removed or blocked open and the berths used as sections.

A number of other older lounge and parlor cars were modified into hospital cars.

Troop (main) train consists were made up on a case-by-case basis to exactly meet the Army's needs. This means some of the trains were mixed, and some were switched en-route, with several mains in the came consist moving to/from different points.

If you can get to some archives, there are numerous articles in wartime Railway Age issues discussing various emergency car orders, modifications and military main operations.

These trains were not the lap of luxury, nor were they intended by anyone to be such. They were pressed into service to meet urgent, massive troop movement needs, and the Army really didn't care about comfort. If you think the troop trains were bad, try a troop ship for a month or so, in submarine-infected waters. As they said, "Don't ya know there's a war going on??"

Besides, take those comments with a grain of salt. Troops have been known to gripe about anything and everything. It's part of the job of being genuine heroes.

[CBQ_Guy]

The recent issue of Classic Trains from Kalmbach has an article on a troop train trip (say that five times fast) taken in the 1960's, by the author, Ed DeRouin.

[jimrice4449]

If you look through books with WWII era trains the troop trains can be readily identified by the baggage cars. They're in the middle of the train. Most full train troop movements seem to have been made with standard hvywt Pullmans. The baggage cars were for the field kitchens. If you check the dates for the troop sleepers you'll see that they would have come on line only towards the end of the war. I would imagine that the preferred cars would have been 14 or 16 section former tourist cars or non-AC cars pulled from storage. One of Lucius Beebe's picture books (vol. II of THE TRAINS WE RODE I think) misidentifies an SP troop train as the pre-streamlined Daylight because the train indicators show No. 99 but the all Pullman consist and mid=train baggage car give it away.

[orsonroy]

Oh, I wasn't. The railroads were just starting to recover from the depression in 1939, when Europe went to war and the US economy skyrocketed. Once we entered the War, the railroads, which had been cutting costs by scrapping and/or sidelining anything they could to save money, were caught with their pants down. The railroads had to press basically everything back into service, which is why you could see 1880-vintage 4-4-0s pulling freights in 1944.

It's just funny to talk to vets about their wartime experiences, when their most vivid recollections have to do with food and comfort! And the consensus is that their railroad travels during the war were anything BUT comfortable!

[ndbprr]

I have talked to more than one or two who rode in coaches so old that they should have been retired before World War One! (wicker seats, wood sides, and holes in the floor big enough to fall through)
Don't lose sight of the economic plight of the day. We entered WW2 from the Great Depression. Shortages of virtually everyting existed. For the length of the war, gasoline, steel, food and many other commodities were rationed including travel. If it rolled the railroads used it and not by choice in all probablity. If you asked any railroad official from the era they would probably agree with you.

[orsonroy]

Troop baggage doesn't take up that much space, so you'd only need one or two full baggage cars per train. I've never seen a photo of a troop train with more than one baggage car at the head end, and several photos of trains with NO baggage cars at all. GIs usually kept their field pack and weapons with them onboard trains (no ammo, though), while a baggage car would carry unit gear.

Don't forget that only officers usually rode in Pullmans, and they were tacked onto the rear of the trains (along with a full diner, if there was enough brass onboard). Enlisted personnel either rode in the troop sleepers, or more commonly in the oldest, nastiest coaches railroads could scrounge up. In talking to several vets about their wartime experiences (I'm a WWII reenactor too) I've never run across a single EM who actually rode in either a troop sleeper or Pullman. I have talked to more than one or two who rode in coaches so old that they should have been retired before World War One! (wicker seats, wood sides, and holes in the floor big enough to fall through)

[Anonymous]

well depends on where you're modeling. Most troop trains were for taking fresh recruits to bootcamp from hubs, and then taking them from there to ports. as these troops only hand their duffle bag, the trains normally didn't have baggage cars attached (the rutsacks, as they were called, stayed with the soldier).

Now if you model the alaskan or european troop trains, then these trains would have both baggage cars and equipment cars to carry the troops additional supplies, of course they'd be followed by dedicated freuight trains with the heavy equipment they need (tanks, jeeps, ect).

[Anonymous]

Baggage cars are used to carry the troops's rucksacks and weapons etc...and whatever else may be carried by the troops.

I estimate one kitchen car serving 3 troop cars on each end of it.

Someone here on these forums posted a excellent video of troop trains. I wish for it to be brought up again to be seen. If I find the thread Ill post it here.

[cefinkjr]

Now that some nice models of troop Pullmans and kitchen cars are available, I'm planning on assembling a typical troop train. I would use a mix of troop Pullmans and kitchen cars plus standard Pullmans (12-1) and diners.

Does anyone have solid information as to baggage cars? I'm not talking about the fairly common case of adding troop cars to regularly scheduled trains. I'm sure those would have had their normal head end cars. What I'm interested in are special "dedicated" troop trains that would have carried only military personnel. I can convince myself either way that it would be logical to include or exclude baggage cars but I'd rather hear from someone with clear memories of them or pictures. (I don't need to see the pictures. I'll take your word for it.)

Thanks,
Chuck