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Research is surprising.

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 4:42 PM

davidmurray

I would venture the opinion that doubling the diameter, or radius if talking math of a shell, you would have to double the length to maintain ballistic performance.

This would make a 16" shell eight times heavier than a 8".

The old square cube rule in effect.

Dave

 

 
We have a winner!  Standard USN 8 inch AP shell, 335#, is almost exactly 1/8 the weight of the 16 inch AP shell designed for use in the Iowa class BBs, 2700#.
 
Of course, the Iowas could reach an extreme range of 35,000 yards...
 
There used to be some leftover 16 inch ammunition stored at Hawthorne, where almost every bunker has (or had) rail service.
 
Chuck (Long ago cadet-midshipman modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
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Posted by davidmurray on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 3:16 PM

Overmod

>Now double the size to 16''inches, about the same range.

No, it's much better than that.  What you doubled was the diameter.  The size went up four times.  That's not a trivial difference!

 

I would venture the opinion that doubling the diameter, or radius if talking math of a shell, you would have to double the length to maintain ballistic performance.

This would make a 16" shell eight times heavier than a 8".

The old square cube rule in effect.

Dave

 

David Murray from Oshawa, Ontario Canada
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 6:23 AM

>Now double the size to 16''inches, about the same range.

No, it's much better than that.  What you doubled was the diameter.  The size went up four times.  That's not a trivial difference!

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Posted by FRRYKid on Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:48 AM

dehusman

I always suggest that people do their own research, rather than just ask questions on forums.

Not to dispute that, but sometimes you get personal experiences that are not online. Also there are some tidbits that are not online. (Certain railroad books are not posted online and where I am I don't have easy access to them.)

dehusman

I have found out more cool stuff looking for other stuff than you can imagine.

On the other hand, I will admit I have found a few things via eBay (my online hobby shop) that I couldn't havve found anywhere else. Good examples: my car float and dock as well as the building that will be used as a station/resturant for my tourist railroad.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
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Posted by leighant on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:50 PM

I won't have the big guns or big-gun carrying transport car on my layout, but a bunker for big shore defense guns is part of the prototype scene I am modeling in Galveston, Texas.

 

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Posted by BigJim on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:07 AM

locoi1sa

   While doing some research for my F22 flat cars with the 16 inch gun load I came across Mr. Gene Slovers web site. There is where I found this very impressive picture.   http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/AMMUNITION/USS-IOWA-BROADSIDE-FIREING.html

    Those guns were powerful! Research is fun and one can easily be side tracked.

           Pete

A counterpoint to what was said in that link:  http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-022.htm

.

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Posted by dknelson on Friday, February 7, 2014 11:00 AM

By the way one Google research resource that too few know about is the Google News archives.  It is not always easy to get into but for certain types of prototype research I have found it fascinating and helpful.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by Graffen on Friday, February 7, 2014 2:00 AM
.....or: Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life!

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, February 6, 2014 10:34 PM

richg1998
 
dehusman

I always suggest that people do their own research, rather than just ask questions on forums.  I have found out more cool stuff looking for other stuff than you can imagine.

 

 

 

I have suggested Google searches here in the past. The Ranters went ballistic. Rarely is anything, Ungoogleable.

 Some here like a following they have and don't like people searching on their own.

 I have built extensive links on modeling in different subjects. Much better than being led by the hand with a sense of accomplishment.

Rich

 

Rich, Dave...  I completely agree with both of you. The search is an adventure and it leads to some pretty amazing places. The  <right click/save picture as>  will also let you amass a personal collection of photos and diagrams for future reference, too.

Shorpy, Wikipedia, Google and the hundreds of historical societies and photo collections can reveal a wealth of information for the curious researcher!

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day...

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, February 6, 2014 6:28 PM

dehusman

I always suggest that people do their own research, rather than just ask questions on forums.  I have found out more cool stuff looking for other stuff than you can imagine.

 

I have suggested Google searches here in the past. The Ranters went ballistic. Rarely is anything, Ungoogleable.

 Some here like a following they have and don't like people searching on their own.

 I have built extensive links on modeling in different subjects. Much better than being led by the hand with a sense of accomplishment.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by ndbprr on Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:22 PM
I oncr heard on a tv show about the first Iraq war that it didn't take the Iraqis long to realize that little plane was directing 16" shell fire from the Wisconsin. They would immediately try to surrender. The shells weighed as much as a VW bug and were lobbed over ten miles or more to the target.
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Posted by locoi1sa on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 4:28 PM

Ed.

 I have the same resin kits too. There was an F22 brass painted with load bolster on evil bay that I was going to bid on. It went for $90 plus shipping. Not bad but too steep for me. I have the AMB wood decks and gun kit. I also picked up two sets of HD arch bar trucks with the three visible coil springs.

  Thanks to all the other responders too. Been there with the M109 and M110 Howitzers firing. The cuncusion was big from them. I can't imagine the 2500lb 16 inch shell. Looking at the depresion in the ocean is what caught my eye. WOW, what power.

     Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 11:04 AM

http://www.usscolorado.org/index.htm

 is a magnificent website devoted to the USS Colorado (30 pages of great photos) and a complete summary of its service record.   It took a pounding during WWII but gave as good as it got particularly at Okinawa.    

The website notes the remaining artifacts of the Colorado but no mention of this continuing use of its 16 inchers.  Someone might like to be informed that this part of its past is still in use.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by zstripe on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 3:48 AM

Having experienced first hand as a forward observer, the guy that calls the shots, so to speak. You do not want to be any where near, where a shell hits. Vietnam, IFFV HDqtr's Btry 6th BN 32nd 8'' inch self propelled ARTY. No one is safe, for a radius of 50ft when a phosphorus shell goes off, let alone the impact. From 17 miles away. Those howitzers were the most accurate for the time. Now double the size to 16''inches, about the same range.

DAVE H, Knowledge is light, in my books. Plus I like to read. And the search, is part of the adventure, which seem's to be lacking, now a days.

Striped

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Posted by "JaBear" on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 2:47 AM

dehusman
I have found out more cool stuff looking for other stuff than you can imagine.

 

Thats all very nice and well Dave, Big Smile BUT I get can get too easily sidetracked.Bang Head Sigh

Cheers, the Bear.

P.S. Interesting photos , I've only been close up to an existing WW2 battery of two 6 inch guns in Fiji, and thought they were big enough.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by Lake on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 11:57 PM

I have been on the receiving end of RPG's, Mortars, rifle rounds, and light artillery, etc.

But can only imagine the destruction of being on the receiving end of a 16" gun shell.  Indifferent

Ken G Price   My N-Scale Layout

Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR

N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.

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Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 9:30 PM

I always suggest that people do their own research, rather than just ask questions on forums.  I have found out more cool stuff looking for other stuff than you can imagine.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 9:13 PM

Hi, Pete

I share your interest in the 16" guns and I too have looked at Eugene's site. My workplace happens to have a pair of 16 inchers off the USS Colorado (BB-45) and I see them every day.

Here they are in 1958 being readied for their trip to Ohio. I believe this photo was taken at the Watervliet Arsenal.

Thats F22 PRR 435390 in the photo! Must have been part of a public display? Machine guns at the ready to keep the folks from getting out of hand...

And, after shortening, arriving in Ohio June 1959

That would make an interesting load in itself! Look at that blocking. If the gun don't fit the gon, cut her down!

And here's how the gun looks today... well, yesterday! With the muzzle end cut off and plugged it is used as a 40,000 psi pressure vessel for sintering metal powders.

I'm working on some resin F22s and I know the minute I get them finished Bowser or somone (Tichy would be nice!)will make them available in plastic! That's the breaks!

Take care, Ed

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 7:54 PM

Research can also come up with some amazing facts - like the fact that one wife of a past Norfolk & Western president had a chair fastened to the pilot deck so she could get an uninterrupted view of the oncoming track and scenery.  (Unfortunately, it was found in a book devoted to shady financing and boardroom shenanigans, with nary a mention of routes, track arrangements or rolling stock design.)

I know how easy it is to pull up a Wiki and then start prowling through all the blue words just to see what crawls out from under a rock.  Or to inquire on one person's name, only to find out something about an entirely different person and the connection between the two.  History is vast and complex - and fascinating.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - interested in everything)

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Research is surprising.
Posted by locoi1sa on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 7:41 PM

   While doing some research for my F22 flat cars with the 16 inch gun load I came across Mr. Gene Slovers web site. There is where I found this very impressive picture.   http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/AMMUNITION/USS-IOWA-BROADSIDE-FIREING.html

    Those guns were powerful! Research is fun and one can easily be side tracked.

           Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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