A through freight enters a classification yard to setout a block of cars and/or pick up another block. Would it be more prototypical to have the setout block at the front of the train and have the road engines do the setout and/or pickup or have the setout block at the rear and have a switch engine take the setout block off the back of the train and add the pickup block? The year I am modeling in 1956 so there will be a caboose on the rear.
From my observation the most common practice was to have the road power and crew make the move. Trains were generally blocked to do the work from the head end.
DSO17,
I think you're right that this is the trend in recent times.
Going back to the mid-50s, things were busier, more switch crews, and thus people protecting their jobs. There was more of a distinction between road and yard crews. I'll bet it wasn't unheard of for road crews to handle this where it was agreed to by labor and management, but it was most likely more common to see the switch crew get the work if available at the location.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
DSO17 From my observation the most common practice was to have the road power and crew make the move. Trains were generally blocked to do the work from the head end.
Actually that would depend on the company/union work rules..A regular road crew was allowed to make three enroute setouts/pickups by most agreements.
However.
For the railroads to get around that work agreement they ran a train called a interdivision transfer train that was allow to make setouts/pickups at all outlaying yards the exception being they could not switch industries nor was they allowed to do terminal work other then picking up their cars and making their setouts..
These work agreements was still in effect when I worked on the Chessie(C&O)/early CSX between 78-84.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
mlehman DSO17, I think you're right that this is the trend in recent times. Going back to the mid-50s, things were busier, more switch crews, and thus people protecting their jobs. There was more of a distinction between road and yard crews. I'll bet it wasn't unheard of for road crews to handle this where it was agreed to by labor and management, but it was most likely more common to see the switch crew get the work if available at the location.
Actually, I wasn't commenting on recent times. I was referring to how things were done in the 1950s thru the early 1980s. Under the agreements I was familiar with setouts and pickups were part of the duties of the road crew.
BRAKIE DSO17 From my observation the most common practice was to have the road power and crew make the move. Trains were generally blocked to do the work from the head end. Actually that would depend on the company/union work rules..A regular road crew was allowed to make three enroute setouts/pickups by most agreements. However. For the railroads to get around that work agreement they ran a train called a interdivision transfer train that was allow to make setouts/pickups at all outlaying yards the exception being they could not switch industries nor was they allowed to do terminal work other then picking up their cars and making their setouts.. These work agreements was still in effect when I worked on the Chessie(C&O)/early CSX between 78-84.
Under the agreements I was familiar with a road crew could and did claim local freight rates for the trip if they had to make more than three SO/PUs.
DSO17 Actually, I wasn't commenting on recent times. I was referring to how things were done in the 1950s thru the early 1980s. Under the agreements I was familiar with setouts and pickups were part of the duties of the road crew.
I know it varied, so good to know it did happen. I've got several scenarios that are similar and was wandering what others experinced, given there is some variation in this depending on contract langauge.
DSO17Under the agreements I was familiar with a road crew could and did claim local freight rates for the trip if they had to make more than three SO/PUs.
Several roads had such a agreement and they found it cheaper to do that instead of using another 5 man crew.
The crews love it since it made a fatter paycheck.
Thanks to all for the great info. If I am understanding all of this, for my era (1956), the switching most likely would be done by the road crew but that could vary depending on the contractual situation with the unions. Since I am a freelancer, I get to decide what that contract language will be.
jecorbett Thanks to all for the great info. If I am understanding all of this, for my era (1956), the switching most likely would be done by the road crew but that could vary depending on the contractual situation with the unions. Since I am a freelancer, I get to decide what that contract language will be.
If your a nonunion short line no worries.
Actually I'm tickled pink our train operation doesn't have to emulate that part of railroading.
BRAKIE jecorbett Thanks to all for the great info. If I am understanding all of this, for my era (1956), the switching most likely would be done by the road crew but that could vary depending on the contractual situation with the unions. Since I am a freelancer, I get to decide what that contract language will be. If your a nonunion short line no worries. Actually I'm tickled pink our train operation doesn't have to emulate that part of railroading.
Brakie,
Just one more question along those lines for my own curiousity. I used to play golf with a guy who retired from Conrail, working out of Columbus, OH. He used to talk about how he had Pennsy seniority and that benefitted him over guys who hired in under Conrail. It sounded to me like he was saying that when there was a merger, agreements from the previous railroads would be grandfathered in but would not necessarily be carried over to employees hiring in under the new company. Was that how it worked?
I know that the seniority problem came up because multiple seniority lists from the predecessor RRs were merged when Conrail came into existence. This sorted out who stood where under Conrail when it started up. This is all about who gets first call for work and choice in assignments. Since there were multiples lines, multiple agreements and various ways they oevrlapped, I'm sure it was a nightmare for those involved in doing the sorting out.
Those hired by Conrail itself after startup basically started at the bottom, underneath all those on the merged seniority lists of the predecessor hires.
That's the generral situation, but I'll bet Larry has all the gory details.
jecorbettIt sounded to me like he was saying that when there was a merger, agreements from the previous railroads would be grandfathered in but would not necessarily be carried over to employees hiring in under the new company. Was that how it worked?
Basically yes,I had seniority as a PRR brakeman but,when PC started to combine and close some yards I didn't have enough service time to protect my job from the displaced senior brakeman.
Oddly enough this did not hold true for Chessie since none of the Chessie roads was merged..While my paycheck said "Chessie System" I was hired by the C&O and was a C&O employee.
Of course CSX would change all of that by '87 by mergng all Chessie roads first the WM into the B&O and then the B&O into the C&O and then the C&O into CSX.
I missed that mess..Fred stole my job in '84.
Is the "Classification" yard at the initial or final terminal of the crew? If so a yard engine would have handled it on most roads in the '50's. If the above mentioned yard was an intermediate point between the crew's initial and final terminal most often the road crew would make straight pick ups or setouts. If switching was involved at the intermediate point and switch crew was on duty they would most likely do the work.
As for working the rear end of a train at a yard where the road crew could do the work by contract a yard crew might be used just to save time. In the '50's many roads did not yet have radios on all engines and cabooses and portables were pretty much still a railroad dream. When working the rear of a train by hand signs or running around thru the yard with the power to work the rear end and getting back to the head end can burn up hours quickly.
Dick Haave
rrboomerWhen working the rear of a train by hand signs or running around thru the yard with the power to work the rear end and getting back to the head end can burn up hours quickly.
Even with radios switching takes a lot of time even more so today with new FRA and railroad rules.
As a example now a crew must stop and check the couplers before making a joint and they're no longer allowed to swing off or on moving equipment.
Making a rear end set out is a lot easier today. Just pull through the track, cut off the rear end set out and move the EOT up.
Jeff
jeffhergert Making a rear end set out is a lot easier today. Just pull through the track, cut off the rear end set out and move the EOT up. Jeff
I wonder if they would use a carman for that or the train's conductor?
Of course the use of a contract crew taxie/cab or company pickup truck would speed things up.
BRAKIE I wonder if they would use a carman for that or the train's conductor? Of course the use of a contract crew taxie/cab or company pickup truck would speed things up.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman BRAKIE I wonder if they would use a carman for that or the train's conductor? Of course the use of a contract crew taxie/cab or company pickup truck would speed things up. Generally the carmen cannot make the cut by plan, a trainman cuts the cars. They can either move up the EOT or relay the EOT, depends on the size of the terminal. Its quicker to have the train crew hang the EOT since in most cases the carmen have to establish blue flag protection.
Such operation should be under blue flag protection especially in the yard since your standing in the red zone..
I was thinking it would be faster then having to taxie the conductor to and from the engine.
I know years ago a carman had to connect the steam hoses and signal lines on passenger cars.
I do not know about practices in the 50's or 60's. Today with two man crews things are much different. Normally road trains serving industries or setting off cars prefer to do that from the front of the train. Pulling the entire train beyond a switch and backing into it takes far longer than pulling ahead just the cars you need to cut off and backing them in. A great deal however depends on what kind of air test you have to do before you leave, where are the road crossings you might be fouling, how much walking are you going to have to do. The answer is definitely not the same for everyone.