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PRR steam locomotives on the Pittsbugh division?

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  • Member since
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  • From: NS(ex PRR) Mon Line.
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PRR steam locomotives on the Pittsbugh division?
Posted by Jimmy_Braum on Monday, December 2, 2013 2:05 PM

Anyone have any idea where to look for a general roster of what ran on the Pittsburgh division in the early 50's with steam? I already have a T1, two K4s's, and am trying to fill out my Roster.

(My Model Railroad, My Rules) 

These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway.  As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).  

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Posted by dti406 on Monday, December 2, 2013 2:31 PM

Try Jerry Britton's Keystone Crossing's Website. Here is the link to the May 1, 1950 Locomotive Distrubution by Divison, other periods are available.

http://www.pennsyrr.com/kc/motiveops/downloads/mp229_500501.pdf

As an aside the T1's were out of service by 1950, and they would not have been used on the Pittsburgh Divison as they could not traverse the curve in the Pittsburgh Station.

 

Rick J

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

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Posted by locoi1sa on Monday, December 2, 2013 5:42 PM

  Jimmy.

  Rick gave you some great resources for your inquiry. You will need som H9 and H10 2-8-0, I1sa 2-10-0, and some G5s 4-6-0 if you want to run some commuter trains. I almost forgot the M1a and M1b too.

               Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by Jimmy_Braum on Monday, December 2, 2013 5:53 PM

Thanks you guys, I plan to do one based on the Pittsburgh division, but not the exact division..sort of a Freelanced-Pennsy layout.  Also,I plan to only run steam.

(My Model Railroad, My Rules) 

These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway.  As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).  

  • Member since
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  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
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Posted by dknelson on Monday, December 2, 2013 5:56 PM

It is not as good as an actual locomotive assignment roster, and it may be that this or that Morning Sun book has even more pictures, but if you do not already have a copy I strongly recommend getting Walter A Feibelman's book, Rails to Pittsburgh.  It is not exclusively Pennsy.

Several photos show T1s at 22nd St Terminal and one photo is dated 1949.  Another shot caption mentions the T1 is ready to depart on the Panhandle Division.  Another identifies the engine as being in Wilkinsburg.

I realize this may not answer or even address your precise question.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by locoi1sa on Monday, December 2, 2013 7:31 PM

Rather funny that by the mid fifties the most modern steam locomotives were parked and awaiting disposal and the final fire was dropped on a locomotive that was nearly 45 years old to finish the last run of steam. 100 years of steam locomotive developement and building. Gone but not forgotten.

     Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by ACY Tom on Monday, December 2, 2013 9:53 PM

It's true that there were restrictions on the use of Duplex locomotives in the Pittsburgh area.  I don't know the specifics except to say that the freight duplexes weren't used east of Pittsburgh.  T1's, however, were used on trains running both east and west from Pittsburgh, but I believe they were prohibited from using certain tracks.  G5 4-6-0's were used on Pittsburgh commuter trains.  I1s Decapods were the dominant main line freight power for many years, both as road engines and as helpers.  In several photos, I have noted the absence of feedwater heaters on a lot of I1's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in the 1940's.  I don't know whether that means there was an intentional plan to assign the Altoona-built Decapods to this area, or if the Altoona engines just happened to be photographed more often (the Baldwin 2-10-0's had Worthington feedwater heaters; those built in Altoona had none).   L1s were general utility engines.  M1 and M1a/b's were used on the faster freight trains and on some passenger trains.  Beginning in WWII, J1 2-10-4's were assigned to heavy freight service, and they were among the last steam engines in use on the Pittsburgh Division, as late as 1957, I believe.  H9s were MOSTLY built for Lines East of Pittsburgh, and H10s were MOSTLY built for Lines West.  However, by the late 1940's many H10s had been transferred to Eastern lines, so either of these classes could be justified on the Pittsburgh Division, handling locals, mine runs, and trains destined for the branches.  B6sb switchers would have been in use, but PRR had already begun to dieselize some yard operations by the end of the 1940's.  The older, smaller 0-6-0's and 2-8-0's like B8's, B28's, H6's and H8's were mostly scrapped by 1950, and PRR's early 4-6-2's (K2s and K3s) were also all gone by then.  By the way, the USRA Mikado has been available in PRR lettering from a few sources.  Please remember PRR only had 5 of them in the 1940's, and they were all scrapped in 1948.  They all operated out of Cincinnati and wouldn't likely be seen on the Pittsburgh Division anyway.

Tom

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Posted by delray1967 on Thursday, December 5, 2013 2:14 AM

Kind of off topic, but how accurate are the Proto Heritage PRR 0-6-0 or 0-8-0's?  Do they need a lot of detail parts to make convincing PRR models (like the Belpaire firebox)?  I don't want to spend a lot of time and effort making this an accurate loco; I've been thinking of getting one for my dad for Christmas (I hope he isn't reading this).  He has a small switching layout and I was hoping those locos are accurate and have good sound (slight or no chuffing during light moves/chuffing when pulling a few cars)...I recently saw a video of a small steam engine pushing a big steam engine and it made little sound, until the drivers slipped, then heard the chuffing.  I model the late 60's C&O so I don't have much knowledge of PRR or steam sound decoders.  Thanks!

http://delray1967.shutterfly.com/pictures/5

SEMI Free-Mo@groups.io

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, December 5, 2013 3:38 AM

Hi, delray

I have one copy of the Proto 0-8-0 from the first run way back when and without doing lots of research I don't believe it would represent anything the Pennsy would have had.

Instead, may I suggest the H10s that Broadway Limited is planning to make available soon (but probably not before Christmas!) http://www.broadway-limited.com/paragon2prrh10s.aspx This looks like it would fit the bill and besides the K4 it represents one of the smaller offerings of P-Company steam from BLI.

Maybe give your dad a photo of the model and give him an IOU under the tree?

Hope this helps, Ed

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Posted by ndbprr on Thursday, December 5, 2013 6:25 AM
The proto 0-6-0 is legitimate and is a class b28. PRR had a few. Also the PRRT&HS did a book on Pittsburgh awhile back.
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Posted by locoi1sa on Thursday, December 5, 2013 5:27 PM

Delray.

 The 0-8-0 is not close to anything the PRR ran. The 0-6-0 is a good representative of a B28s. http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr8166a.jpg

   Sometimes you can get a good deal on brass on E-bay. My Overland B6sb with can motor and factory painted was half the price of the plastic Walthers 0-6-0. I scored a Westside K5s (Juniata built) for $120. This is what I did with it.

http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/locoi1sa/library/K5s%205698%20project

   The BLI H10s is going to have the lines west tender. I don't know if a lines east tender is in the works for future runs.

    Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: NS(ex PRR) Mon Line.
  • 1,395 posts
Posted by Jimmy_Braum on Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:16 PM
I'm looking to get a 2-8-0 Consolidation for my shortline. After some decaling, weathing it to look on it's last legs,etc it should fit right at home on a shortline.

(My Model Railroad, My Rules) 

These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway.  As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).  

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Dearborn Heights, Michigan
  • 364 posts
Posted by delray1967 on Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:42 PM

Thanks for the replys (and sorry for the brief Hijack).  I'll look into the B28, I'm glad to know it's a legitimate model...I know you PRR guys can point out detail discrepancies (I wish C&O had records like the PRR; I understand why it's popular to model...lots of info!).  TKM is an incredible resource, I'm impressed so much information survived to this date.  C&O Historical Society magazine...good but not great (especially for the old Pere Marquette district).  My dad's layout is a 1x6 switching layout and he has a couple FM diesels; I thought a steam engine would be something fun for him to open.

I found an (unpainted) brass 2-8-0 on ebay for just over $100:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/brass-steam-locomotive-sunset-models-prr-h10-2-8-0-lines-west-tender-/121225968365?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c39a17aed

 

http://delray1967.shutterfly.com/pictures/5

SEMI Free-Mo@groups.io

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Posted by ACY Tom on Saturday, December 7, 2013 9:23 PM

On the subject of USRA steam switchers used on PRR, all of PRR's B28's had high numbers indicating they wrere originally used on Lines West of Pittsburgh.  Some may have migrated farther east, but most late photos show them in places like Canton, Ohio, west of Pittsburgh.  It appears that the very last B28 on the roster was 9990, which was dropped from the roster in November, 1952.  She had been renumbered from 9212 in February, 1948.  My source for this is Edson's KEYSTONE STEAM & ELECTRIC, which is highly recommended (Wayner Publications, 1974).   Other roads that used USRA 0-6-0's in the region were B&O and NKP (copies built by the W&LE).  While PRR did not use the USRA 0-8-0 design, it was used by a number of nearby roads, and you could justify it as a visitor at an interchange point.  P&LE and NYC had lots of them, as did NKP and some nearby industrial RR's.  The "Lines West" tender on the forthcoming Paragon H10s makes a lot of sense.  The H10s engines were a Lines West design in the first place, and some H10s carried those tenders well into the 1950's, although many other H10s got secondhand L1s and I1s tenders. 

Tom

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