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Switcher Direction

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, November 21, 2013 10:07 AM

Back to the OP, one thing to remember - if you use DCC - is the engine is going to respond to "forward" and "reverse" based on how you set up the decoder, regardless of which way the engine is facing. On my shelf / switching layout, I use a Digitrax handheld controller. Clicking the direction switch to the right makes the engine go foward, to the left, puts it in reverse. That makes it easy if the engine is facing to the right - click the switch to the right, the engine goes to the right; click the switch to the left, the engine goes to the left. But if the engine is facing to the left, I sometimes have to remind myself that clicking the direction switch to the right now makes the engine go to the left....

Huh?

Stix
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Posted by upjake on Sunday, November 10, 2013 6:31 PM

As others have said, it is very railroad-specific, at least for mainline trains. Some roads wanted crash protection, such as the Great Northern, and used their early high-hood road switchers with the long hood as the front.  Other roads had visibility as the concern, etc.  

On branchlines, the road switcher design was obviously developed so any direction was ok if there wasn't a turntable available.

Do what looks good to you or is functional for your modeling preferences.   

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Posted by WSOR 3801 on Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:25 PM

A few more shots coupled nose to nose.

Visibility is the over riding concern. 

Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com

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Posted by binder001 on Thursday, November 7, 2013 10:43 AM

As mentioned, there is a designated "front" to each locomotive.  As far as operating custom, the real railroads sometimes changed their minds!  On the Union Pacific the first road switchers (RS2, RSC2, AS616,, GP7, SD7) were all set up to have the long hood designated as "front".  The GP9s started arriving and they had the short hood end designated as "front" and all other UP locomotives have followed that pattern since.

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, November 7, 2013 2:20 AM

On model railroads, you often see two end-cab switchers operating back-to-back (with the cabs together). One thing you hardly ever see, which was common in real railroading, was two switchers nose-to-nose so the cabs are to the outside. My guess is it's easier to see what you're doing looking out the back of the cab than peering over the long hood of the switcher.

http://duluthsuperior.railfan.net/images/LSTT_winter_2.jpg

 

Stix
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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, November 6, 2013 1:28 PM

At model railroad operating sessions you sometimes hear the phrase "No, the other forward."

Dave Nelson

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, November 6, 2013 5:45 AM

BAmos
When crews got to the end of a branch line if there was a WYE or a turntable crews would turn the engine if not then it was run reversed.  

Bill,Here's some fun information..If the crew was going for a early quit they would not bother to turn the engine.On the other hand if the crew was going for overtime then they would turn the engine and move at a slower pace.

Larry

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Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by BAmos on Tuesday, November 5, 2013 9:48 PM

FRRYKid

The railroad determined which end was to be the front and the locomotives were built to that specification. This pertains to the road engines but Great northern and I believe the N & W both ran long hood forward for crash protection. When crews got to the end of a branch line if there was a WYE or a turntable crews would turn the engine if not then it was run reversed.  Yard switchers still have a designated front but it but they are not required to run a certain way.

Bill

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, November 5, 2013 5:53 PM

Mike when I worked on the PRR we used hand signals..Here's how they taught me as a student.

Give a "go way" signal for the engine to pull forward..A "come to me signal" was for the engine to back up.

The "go away" was a up/down motion with either arm..The " come to me" signal was the standard signal for back up- a circular motion.

 

On the Chessie we used radios and it was either "pull ahead 6122 or "shove them back" 6122..Then they use take them East or West..

Example.

Take them East 6122-18 to the switch.

Engineer.Roger 6122 Take them East 18 to the switch..

That will do when you get 'em stop 6122.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by WSOR 3801 on Tuesday, November 5, 2013 5:06 PM

We usually run the switchers paired up, nose-to-nose, glass ends out. There is a bit of a pucker factor when running at 40 mph.  Surprise 

The "F" is on the front, so crew members get confused sometimes when they usually work with GPs back-to-back.  A simple "Which way?" over the radio a few times per shift clears things up, or using the more descriptive "Pull" or "Shove". 

If one of the switchers is down for test and/or repairs, we usually try to add a GP so that they are both going the same way, but the glass ends are on the ends, for better visibility. 

Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com

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Posted by DSO17 on Tuesday, November 5, 2013 5:30 AM

     Just as an aside, back in the day, most of the locations I was around would let the crew turn the engine IF there was a wye or turntable handy. (and, of course, if the Boss was in a good mood) 

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Posted by dehusman on Monday, November 4, 2013 11:01 PM

Pre radio the engineer would be on the side with the most switch stands so he could see the crew members passing signals.

Post radio it was less of a problem but when possible the engineer would be on the "field" side.

RCL/RCO modern era, doesn't matter at all.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by Redore on Monday, November 4, 2013 10:49 PM

The F is to tell which direction it will go when the reversing lever is in the F position.

At  USS we put the cab away from the cars so that a shovel bucket wouldn't accidentally wipe out the cab or drop a large rock on it.

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Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, November 4, 2013 10:16 PM
BRAKIE

Actually either direction works equally well with radios and RTO packs.

My era is too old for RTO packs, but otherwise that's good to know.
BRAKIE

A history tidbit.

Some railroads preferred have the engineer on the same side of the switch stands so he could see the switchman' hand signals-this also applied to steam engines.

So,there was two types of yards a "forward" yard where the engine operated  long hood forward since the switch stands was on the right hand side.

A "reverse" yard was where the switcher   was operated as cab end forward again so the engineer could see the switchman's hang signals.

That idea, unfortunately, wouldn't work in my case as there are turnouts going both directions. (The yard has RH turnouts and the incoming cars are on a LH turnout)
twcenterprises

Switchers, like other diesels, should have a small "F" on the frame or side sill somewhere to denote "Front".

I did see that on a frame that is from the same kind of engine that I have which shows running long hood first, but I do believe that, just like people, each railroad did things differently.
twcenterprises

In practice, however, the crew would have better visibility running cab forward, and better grade-crossing collision protection running hood forward.

The road runs parallel to the area being switched, so grade crossings aren't a problem.

From everything that has been posted, I think I run the engine cab forward as mentioned for visibility.
"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
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Posted by ACY Tom on Monday, November 4, 2013 10:04 PM

Switchers could operate in either direction, so the short answer is that it doesn't matter.  A steam or diesel electric switcher is equally efficient in either direction, all other factors being equal. However, many (maybe most, but I'm not sure) situations existed wherein the switcher always, or nearly always, faced the same direction.  In the most important yard of one of my favorite RR's, switchers faced west.  As a result, it's hard to find good photos of the right-hand (north) side of that road's switchers.  This was true in steam days as well as diesel days.  I'll have to check the track charts to see whether the switch stands were on the north side.  That's an interesting point.  With steam engines, it's easy to tell front from back.  With diesels, look for the little F on the frame to identify the front.  It isn't always necessary to blow the whistle within yard limits, but it sometimes happens, so you need to know this.  When starting forward, the whistle signal is two shorts.  When starting in reverse, the signal is three shorts.  So it can be important to know which is which.

And it wasn't a dumb question, so relax.

Tom

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Posted by twcenterprises on Monday, November 4, 2013 9:34 PM

Switchers, like other diesels, should have a small "F" on the frame or side sill somewhere to denote "Front".  In practice, however, the crew would have better visibility running cab forward, and better grade-crossing collision protection running hood forward.  Since many switching movements are rather slow, and often in yards, it stands to reason that grade crossing collisions are a low risk.  I would say they simply run the switcher whichever way it is facing.  I have a book showing Southern Railway using switchers (running solo) in both directions, though when using slugs, all the photos show the slugs being on the cab ends (I believe the Southern shops only ran the necessary electricals to the cab ends).

On my layout, pairs of switchers will run cab-to-cab, solo switchers will run whatever direction they face, as per Southern Railway practice.

Brad

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ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil

CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts

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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, November 4, 2013 9:31 PM

Actually either direction works equally well with radios and RTO packs.

 

A history tidbit.

Some railroads preferred have the engineer on the same side of the switch stands so he could see the switchman' hand signals-this also applied to steam engines..

So,there was two types of yards a "forward" yard where the engine operated  long hood forward since the switch stands was on the right hand side.

A "reverse" yard was where the switcher   was operated as cab end forward again so the engineer could see the switchman's hang signals.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Miles City, Montana
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Switcher Direction
Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, November 4, 2013 9:13 PM
I know this probably has been covered before, but I can't seem to find any postings related to it. What, on the prototype, determines the direction a switcher operates (e.g., cab forward or long hood forward)?
In my case, car movement between destinations will be with the engine traveling forward and the cars will be backed in. I don't know if that would change the operating direction or not.
As usual, thank you for all the assistance the forums can provide.
"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.

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