Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Friction bearing-to-roller bearing transition

10680 views
26 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,249 posts
Friction bearing-to-roller bearing transition
Posted by tstage on Friday, November 1, 2013 3:02 PM

Am I correct in my understanding that this first picture is a [Bettendorf] friction bearing truck and the second is a roller bearing truck?

The friction bearing trucks came out in the early 1900s.  When did the roller bearing trucks start coming available and how soon would they have been found on a caboose?

Thanks for any input...

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Friday, November 1, 2013 3:47 PM

Tom,

  The one on top appears to be a friction bearing truck of the Bettendorf design.  This had a silod cast side frame with integral wheel bearing units.

  The lower picture is a friction bearing truck of the Arch Bar design.  This is a bolted-up design that pre-dates the Bettendorf design.  The downfall is that the bolts become loose, and everything 'wears'.  In 1940, the original order banning Arch Bar trucks was issued.  This was extended several times due to the traffic needs of WWII.

  A roller bearing freight trucks looks similar to the Bettendorf design, but has roller bearing journals rather than the square 'lids' that accessed the oiled waste of the friction bearing design.  Roller bearings started to show up on passenger cars in the 20's, and were standard on most passenger cars by the late 30's.  Freight cars started seeing roller bearing in number in the late 40's/early 50's, and became the standard on new freight cars by the 60's.  Ny 1972, roller bearings were required on interchange cars.

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 7,486 posts
Posted by ndbprr on Friday, November 1, 2013 4:39 PM
The transition and subsequent truck design is going to be difficult to pin down. Reason being modern trucks have a distinctive round bearing cap where the lid is on a friction bearing. During the interim many railroads modified friction bearing trucks to accept roller bearings in the previous friction bearing area while retaining the lids. Some railroads removed the lids but some did not. the cost to replace the sideframes would have been prohibitive so a car with a closed lid could have had either during the tranistion.
  • Member since
    March 2002
  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
  • 11,439 posts
Posted by dknelson on Friday, November 1, 2013 5:28 PM

jrbernier

The lower picture is a friction bearing truck of the Arch Bar design.  This is a bolted-up design that pre-dates the Bettendorf design.  

Jim

 
I think the lower picture is not an arch bar truck but an early version of what we modelers call a Bettendorf type truck, but with  T shaped cast metal -- so I think the friction journal boxes are integrally cast with the T shaped frame.  It has leaf springs so is likely to be a caboose or steam locomotive tender truck.
 
 Dave Nelson
 
 
 
 
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Los Angeles
  • 1,619 posts
Posted by West Coast S on Friday, November 1, 2013 5:42 PM

The second example is indeed what came to be called a T section Bettendorf used by the thousands under PFE reefers,a unofficial de facto standard if you will.  Eventually these too were banned in interchange by the mid fifties due to corrosion developing within the tee frame although waivers could be obtained as in the case of the PFE. With those leaf springs, these would suffice for use under tenders and cabooses. SP was late to adopt roller bearings on freight cars, however, UP re-trucked it's S class stock car fleet with roller bearings beginning in 1953, the now surplus orginals were then resold to the PFE which allowed replacement of the now forbidden T section!

Dave

  

SP the way it was in S scale
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Friday, November 1, 2013 5:43 PM

dknelson
I think the lower picture is not an arch bar truck but an early version of what we modelers call a Bettendorf type truck, but with  T shaped cast metal -- so I think the friction journal boxes are integrally cast with the T shaped frame.  It has leaf springs so is likely to be a caboose or steam locomotive tender truck.
 
 Dave Nelson

Dave,

  You may very well be right about that lower truck.  The Bettendorf T Section and L Section trucks were banned from interchange service in 1953, followed by the U Section variation in 1954.  The remaining Bettendorf design(sort of a back to back U) had a much heavier side frame and lasted through the 70's.

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
  • 13,757 posts
Posted by cacole on Friday, November 1, 2013 7:06 PM

The truck in the lower photo also has cast iron wheels, which were outlawed many years ago.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Los Angeles
  • 1,619 posts
Posted by West Coast S on Friday, November 1, 2013 7:39 PM

The waiver granted the PFE expired in 1955 and was not renewed as PFE was retiring in mass a good precentage of the fleet with over 15 years of service by that year. In house forces had developed a stringent inspection and renewal program for the T section that exceeded FRA inspection standards thus their longitivity in PFE use. PFE abandoned the use of cast iron wheels (and archbar designs) in the early twenties about the time the T section was adopted, this posed no end of grief to mechanical forces as these cars could not accept the T section due to the center plate and bolster design thus the temporary use of various Andrew designs which PFE tested, but never adopted.  PFE retired or sold off these cars in the early thrities as cost to rebuild exceeded the cost of purchasing new.

Dave

SP the way it was in S scale
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Friday, November 1, 2013 8:56 PM

The technical name for the bearing is a "plain bearing" rather than friction.

Roller bearings tend to have a round end on the axle.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Stagecoach Nevada
  • 496 posts
Posted by crhostler61 on Saturday, November 2, 2013 1:09 AM

Actually the plain bearing goes back to at least the 1870's based on my experiences of actually oiling them on V&T locomotives and cars at the Nevada State Railroad museum. As for when the plain bearing was completely removed for service...     I went back into my railfanning photos from the 70' and 80's and found my shots of a catastrophic wreck on Conrail in Collegeville Pennsylvania in October 1979 and sure enough an old Pennsy 3 bay hopper in the foreground of one shot clearly shows plain bearing bettendorf trucks. So we can figure...they were used at least til then. I'm guessing that I got one of the few remaining at the time.

Mark H

Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history. 

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: Calgary
  • 2,047 posts
Posted by cx500 on Saturday, November 2, 2013 12:10 PM

I noticed a couple of active air dumps on CPR last year (2012) still running on plain bearings.  Because they are only used in OCS duties within CPR the interchange rules do not affect them.  I did wonder if there were enough old carmen around who understood the maintenance requirements.

Otherwise, plain bearings on new-built cars ended in the 1960s, earlier on more innovative roads.  By now even those cars will be something like 50 years old and thus banned in interchange.  But they could still be found in revenue service into the early 1990s.

John

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 3,312 posts
Posted by locoi1sa on Saturday, November 2, 2013 3:30 PM

Here is a link from the NMRA.

http://www.nmra.org/member/sites/default/files/datasheets/Rolling/d5a.PDF

 After the arch bar there were many manufactures of freight car trucks. Andrews, ASF, Barber, Betendorf, National, Symington and Dalman just to name a few. Some railroads also made their own trucks too. The PRR is one. http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=

  Modelers guide to freight car trucks.

http://mrr.trains.com/~/media/import/files/pdf/4/c/c/mr_pi_5-06_freightcartrucks.pdf

  Common misconception is the rib back wheel verses the flat back. The rib back chilled wheel was banned from interchange in 1970. They were banned on new cars in 1957.

  There was a kit available to retrofit a roller bearing axle into a friction bearing side frame but it did not take off. Here is the patent on it. http://www.google.com/patents/US2802705

  Happy reading.

          Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 3,312 posts
Posted by locoi1sa on Saturday, November 2, 2013 3:55 PM

    I forgot to add that cars in interchange service with odd trucks can be delayed in transit if the need arises for service. Many of the truck manufactures made replacement parts for all the common trucks. When we call a truck an Andrews it actually could have been cast and machined by National or Bettendorf. Railroads could not have a loaded car waiting weeks for a part to be delivered to get it going. The major reason the PRR switched to Buckeye 3 axle trucks on their heavy flats and well cars.

          Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • 596 posts
Posted by charlie9 on Saturday, November 2, 2013 7:22 PM

one great advantage of the roller bearing is often overlooked.  there is no brass for the local thieves to steal and sell for scrap.   swiping brass was really pretty easy once the technique was learned.  all you need is a concrete block, a sturdy 4x4 hardwood timber and little regard for your fingers.  if you are worried about your fingers, then you may want a hook and tongs also.  empty cars make much better targets. they are easier to pry up that loads.

charlie

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, November 2, 2013 7:27 PM

To answer Tom's question, the first application of roller bearing trucks to a freight car was in 1923, a W&LE boxcar. 
Industry-wide, the change didn't occur until January 1st, 1972, when all cars having journals 6 1/2"x11" or larger were required to have roller bearings.  Later, in January 1974, all cars with a gross rail loading of 55,000 lbs. or more per axle had to be roller bearing-equipped.

As for cabooses, new ones at that time would likely come equipped with roller bearings but I'd guess that many cabooses never got them.  In most cases, they were not interchanged, and, as non-revenue cars, probably didn't warrant the expense.


Wayne

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 39 posts
Posted by Blackcloud 5229 on Monday, June 19, 2017 3:01 AM

tstage

Am I correct in my understanding that this first picture is a [Bettendorf] friction bearing truck and the second is a roller bearing truck?

 

The friction bearing trucks came out in the early 1900s.  When did the roller bearing trucks start coming available and how soon would they have been found on a caboose?

Thanks for any input...

Tom

 

As the railroads or car owners updated friction bearing cars to roller bearing the cover on the bearing box was most often removed and a hole was cut into the outside of the box where it curved from vertical to horizontal to prevent water accumulating in the old box after a roller bearing axle was installed. Even if the box covers were retained they all had the circular cut on each box which made identification easy. 

Worked on Penn Central from 1/71 to when Conrail took over. Back then Penn Central had 125,000 employees, now the railroads nationwide barely have 125,000 employees in the entire country.

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Monday, June 19, 2017 3:26 AM

Blackcloud 5229
As the railroads or car owners updated friction bearing cars to roller bearing the cover on the bearing box was most often removed and a hole was cut into the outside of the box where it curved from vertical to horizontal to prevent water accumulating in the old box after a roller bearing axle was installed.

I remember seeing LOTS of those conversions in the '70s.

AFAIK, Rapido is the only manufacturer to offer the "retrofit" trucks. Are there any others?

http://rapidotrains.com/ho-scale-freight-car-trucks/

(Third photo down)

Regards, Ed

  • Member since
    November 2015
  • 1,345 posts
Posted by ATSFGuy on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 1:22 PM

What year were roller-bearing trucks introduced on the railroad?

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 1:58 PM

There is a famous Timken ad picture of - to the best of my recall - 4 young women each pulling a rope attached to a big steam loco.  Yes, they were moving it because it was equipped with the new Timken roller bearings.  I believe the add was from 1944, and there were 4 women doing the pulling (but could have been 6).

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:27 PM

By far, the best US railroad timeline is this one from Bluford Shops:

 

http://bluford-shops.com/bluford_93_024.htm

 

extracting bearing information (paraphrasing):

1948--roller bearings slowly start to show up

1964--friction bearing use on new cars plummets

1968--last new car with friction bearings

1991--friction bearing banned on many tank cars

1994--friction bearings banned in interchange

 

There's sorta two classes of cars in any year: new.  And not-new.  If you're running a newly delivered car in 1965, it will likely have roller bearings.  If you're running an "old" 40' box, it won't.

I like the Bluford timeline so much, I made a PDF of it, with a big empty space on the right side.  When I come upon timeline info not noted in the chart, I add it on the right.

 

Ed

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:33 PM

mobilman44
There is a famous Timken ad picture of - to the best of my recall - 4 young women each pulling a rope attached to a big steam loco. Yes, they were moving it because it was equipped with the new Timken roller bearings. I believe the add was from 1944, and there were 4 women doing the pulling (but could have been 6).

I just had to see that, so to Google I went.

https://penneyvanderbilt.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/pulling-steam-locomotives-by-hand/

Scroll down just a little, there are two pictures.

Mike

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 4:40 PM

Of the two photos cited above, the steam loco shot is probably around 1945, or so.

The freight car one looks to be mid '50's.  Or so my fashion sense says.

 

There's also this one which predates the others:

 

 Photo taken in the early thirties.

Ed

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 8:43 PM

Yep, that picture also showed up in my search.  Not sure if it was on the same vanderbilt site as the others.

Mike.

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
  • 11,439 posts
Posted by dknelson on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:09 PM

1111 is the famous Timkin "Four Aces" - a 4-8-4 from Alco built for Timkin but no railroad, that barnstormed the country showing host railroads the benefits of roller bearings.  1930 to 33, at which time the Northern Pacific bought it (mostly because they had damaged it).

I have also seen pictures of Charles Atlas pulling an entire train (the Broadway Limited) equipped with roller bearings.  

Dave Nelson

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 3,139 posts
Posted by chutton01 on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 12:01 AM

gmpullman
AFAIK, Rapido is the only manufacturer to offer the "retrofit" trucks. Are there any others?


There were at least two other ones.
MDC/Roundhouse Bettendorf Roller Bearing conversion trucks
Eastern Car Works Bettendorf Roller Bearing conversion trucks
Both out of stock (well, the ECW trucks are out-of-stock/sold-out at Walthers; the Roundhouse wouldn't even have been listed with Walthers since the Horizon take-over).
Sorry, no images I could find on-line.

IIRC I had a pair of the MDC trucks, they were kind of interesting looking. This was decades ago, well before Rapidio.

  • Member since
    August 2013
  • 3,006 posts
Posted by ACY Tom on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:35 AM

Hi Tom,

First of all, I try to avoid the term "Bettendorf" except when I am referring to very specific products produced at the Bettendorf, IA foundry. Bettendorf was just one of many foundries that made very similar (although not necessarily identical) versions of cast steel truck frames, and not all Bettendorf products looked the same. 

Timken was a pioneer in the roller bearing feld in the 1920's and 1930's, as has been mentioned. Some of the railroads that served Timken's home city of Canton, Ohio and the adjacent region, were early supporters of Timken. The Wheeling & Lake Erie specified roller bearings on their switchers and Berkshires of the 1930's and 1940's; and AC&Y bought R-2 Mikados with roller bearings in 1941. In 1942, during WWII, AC&Y bought fifteen 70-ton ACF covered hoppers for Soda Ash service out of Barberton, Ohio. These had plain bearings in cast steel trucks; but an additional 1947 order for 25 more of the same had roller bearings mounted in National B-1 trucks. Also in 1947, AC&Y was one of International Car's first customers for postwar steel cabooses, purchasing six cars (AC&Y 60-65) with roller bearings. 

Timken bought a single 1937 AAR boxcar, number TRBX 88, in July, 1943, and painted it in a green scheme with advertising placards for demonstration. The car was displayed at the Chicago Railroad Exposition in 1948 in a yellow livery with a white band and black roof and lettering. In 1951, the AC&Y entered into a lease of that boxcar plus a companion red and white Timken roller bearing gondola. These cars operated as AC&Y boxcar 600 and AC&Y gondola 1500 until 1958. Both cars continued to carry a modified version of the Timken paint scheme with "Roller Freight" logo during this period. Several versions of the yellow Timken boxcar have been produced in HO, and Lionel even produced a version applied to a 6464 series boxcar; but I am not aware of any of them that are truly accurate, and I think the models were all sold with versions of plain bearings. Go figure.  

By 1950. roller bearings were found on most new road diesels and passenger cars, and many new freight cars, but by no means could they be considered universal. Conversion of older equipment came slowly, if at all.  The safest bet is to scrutinize photos or other records of your chosen prototype.

Tom     

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 7,486 posts
Posted by ndbprr on Sunday, June 25, 2017 11:38 AM

I hope some lucky salesman got comission on the sales of roller bearings.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!