Beach BillN&W only had two class P4 tavern-lounge-Obs cars, #581 and 582, built by Pullman in 1949.
These were built specifically for and only used on the "Arrow".
You may want to find a copy of the Oct. 2004 issue Model Railroader magazine which has an article "Modeling N&W passenger trains of the 1950s and '60s" by Rich Weyand. There was some discussion on the N&WHS mailing list as to some corrections to the article, but, I am not sure what they all were at this time. Anyway, the article should get you started.
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With your note of looking at the "mid-50's", I checked the photos of the Pocahontas (Train #4) in that William Warden book. Two heavyweight baggage cars shown in use in photos from Sept. '55, March '56, July '56, and June '58. For some odd reason, the photos seem to emphasize that "J" up front and aren't showing the back of the train. ?
I also found another quote of use: "Class Pm tavern-lounge cars were rebuilt from standard Pm class coaches and were used on the Pocahontas and other mainline trains in the early 1950's."
N&W only had two class P4 tavern-lounge-Obs cars, #581 and 582, built by Pullman in 1949. I didn't ride the Pocahontas until 1969, and by then it was "all coach".
Bill
I have spent a lot of time on the NWHS site doing research. Maybe in person they might have more info.
I was under the impression that the Pokey was streamlined (at least partially) by the mid 50's. I could have sworn that I had read there were 5 cars in the consist though that were the same as the Arrow cars. Maybe I misread that. I was aware of some heavyweight cars still being used. In Pillars of Smoke in the sky, you can see the heavyweight baggage and various other heavy cars being pulled. I was also under the impression that the Pocahontas had a streamlined observation car during the 50's, but I am all ears as to what you guys have to say. I will also see if I can get my hands on that book that you guys referenced. Thank you for the info so far!
I don't have my copy of the N&W handbook handy, but for the Pocahontas there are some things to consider. The cars used on the Arrow were not used on the Pocahontas so re-lettering them would not be an option.
Typical consist in order would be 2 rider (heavyweight) coaches for employees, rpo, baggage and head end traffic. Then would come the coaches which were usually the pre-Arrow cars, then the diner. Following the diner would be the sleepers usually the newer 10-6 cars but maybe some old heavyweights at times, then the observation car.
Rick J
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
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The book Norfolk & Western Passenger Service 1946-1971 by William E. Warden (TLC Publishing, 1990) contains a chapter on the Pocahontas as well as a chapter on the Powhatan Arrow. Quotes of possible interest to you would include:
"The S-1 and S-2 class 10-roomette, 6-double bedroom cars arrived in 1948 and 1949 and sleeping accommodations on the 'Pokey' became state-of-the-art."
"Dining cars were class De, outshopped in 1924 and '27 by Pullman. They were renovated in 1950 to add such amenities as mechanical refrigeration... Relatively new Pm and Pj-class coaches rounded out the consist. When the Powhatan Arrow received new coaches in 1949, the Pm-class rebuilt coaches were added to the Pokey's consist."
"Early 1950 - Roanoke-Cleveland sleeper elimanated; replaced by second Norfolk-Chicago sleeper."
"Early 1953 - Through Norfolk-Chicago coaches added, tavern-lounge and dining cars running Norfolk- Williamson"
"Early 1956 - .... One Norfolk-Chicago sleeper eliminated; eastbound dining car cut back from Norfolk to Petersburg (deadheaded Petersburg-Norfolk)'
"Mid-1958 - Winston-Salem-Columbus sleeper discontinued south of Roanoke; Norfolk-Cincinnati sleeper discontinued east of Roanoke; Norfolk-Chicago coaches discontinued."
To add on to the previous post: http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/rollingstock.php?RRSelect=N%26W+Rwy&CatSelect=&TypeSelect=Baggage-Express This is the N&WHS Archive, a great resource.
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Check out http://www.nwhs.org. They may be able to help
Joe C
Hello,
I recently purchased the MTH Powhatan arrow 5 car set, and plan on re-lettering the coaches to the Pocahontas. I am modeling the Norfolk and Western during the mid to late 50's, and since I am modeling the Blue Ridge grade, I will need a Pocahontas consist. My question is this,
1: what were the car numbers (road numbers, and number of each type) used on the Pokey? I have a rough idea, but information on the Pokey seems hard to find.
2: What order were the cars run in? (I am thinking baggage-mail-sleepers-diner-coaches-observation, but I could be very wrong)
Currently I have 2 Eastern Car Works Norfolk sleepers and the MTH 5 car set. I will need to add baggage, mail and more sleepers, but the number required would be nice to know so I am not running too many sleepers, or not enough baggage. Any information is very welcome.