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Delivering "green" sand

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Delivering "green" sand
Posted by tstage on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 1:52 PM

How was sand delivered to a servicing terminal before the advent of the covered hopper?  Did they just transport the "wet" "green" sand in hoppers and/or gondolas and then dry it right there at the terminal in the drying house?  I'm assuming that must have used manual labor to shovel the wet sand from a gondola to the holding pen at the drying house then did the same moving it from the pen to the drying room.

Thanks for your input...

Tom

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Posted by jrbernier on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 3:10 PM

  

covered hoppers were an expensive piece of rolling stock in the 30's and 40's.  Sand was many times loaded in gondolas or box cars and transported to a 'sand house'.  Once there, it was shoveled into 'green' storage bins(many times with a canvas tarp to protect the sand from the 'weather').  It was then shoveled again into the sandhouse.  There was a large 'stove' with a heating area or collar to dry the sand.  At this point it could be blown up into the sanding tower using compressed air.  There was lots of manual labor!

  When I worked for the CB&Q in the late 60's, we used to work Bay City Sand in Bay City, WI and pick up 'sand' cars for company service.  This sand was pretty dry and was loaded into special service 2 bay covered hoppers with pneumatic discharge ports that were attached to hoses at the sand house when they arrived in the terminals.

Jim

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 5:26 PM

jrbernier
Once there, it was shoveled into 'green' storage bins

Doh! Dunce I meant "green" rather than "wet". Black Eye  Thanks, Jim...

Tom

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Posted by locoi1sa on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9:08 PM

Tom.

 The sand used by locomotives would have to be as dry as can be to prevent clogging tubes and valves and to flow across the rails. But first the sand would be washed and De watered at the producers. This would remove silt and organic material which would also encourage clumping when dry.  The railroads then dried it further before storage in the sand bins. Hot compressed air would be used to elevate the sand to the top o the bins. Some aggregate producers can supply washed and dry sand but it costs is considerably higher. The facilities were already in place (heating equipment and compressors) and labor was cheap.

   If it is any consolation. In my younger days I humped quite a few bags of dry sand to the nose boxes of a few second gen diesels. The sanding facility was being rebuilt but the railroad ran out of money for the project. Two months later CR laid me off. Since then I worked for a few aggregate producers and still do.

          Pete

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Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9:49 PM

Sand was delivered in gons if the RR had drying facilities at the engine terminal.  If not the sand was delivered in boxcars to keep it dry.

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 7:36 AM

Thanks for the input so far, fellas. I really appreciate it. Big Smile

In the case where the RR didn't have drying facilities, where would they have unloaded the dry sand from boxcars in order to keep it as dry as possible?  Is this a case where the sand would have been in individual bags, as Pete alluded to above.

Tom

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 9:23 AM
If they don' t have drying facilities, where are they going to unload it to that will be dryer than a boxcar?

Remember a boxcar equals 30-40 tons of sand.

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:09 PM

dehusman
If they don' t have drying facilities, where are they going to unload it to that will be dryer than a boxcar?

Dunno, Dave.  That's why I was asking the question...

Tom

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:26 PM

They would probably store the sand in the boxcar (a company car).

Here is a picture of the Wilmington DE engine facilities for the P&R/RDG railroad.  Note the sand boxcar in the background, with the boom of the steam crane to load coal and the coal car up on the trestle.  The boxcar is a Double sheathed wood car with a steel underframe,  the hopper is a quad unique to the RDG with alternating exterior side stakes and interior braces.  These cars were later rebuilt with all side stakes (Lionel made a model of them) and then later a floor was installed over the hoppers and they were used for iron ore/taconite loading  out of the Grace Mine at Joanna, PA near Reading, PA.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/displayPhoto.pl?path=/pnp/habshaer/de/de0100/de0189/photos&topImages=032131pr.jpg&topLinks=032131pv.jpg,032131pu.tif&title=HAER%20DEL,2-WILM,34-12&displayProfile=0

The road crossing they are working on is Beech St, it ran across the lead into the roundhouse whose turntable used to be on the immediate left/west of the picture but by the 1930's had been moved to to the east of Beech St , as shown in the picture.

 

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 3:15 PM

In this photo the sand house is at the top end of the coaling trestle. If this is how it was delivered I don't know. The pic is around 1900. I did read that at this facility, blowing the sand to the sanding tower with a compressor also dried the sand at the same time.

I have a pretty decent compressor in the garage and use it to blow things dry all the time. There is no doubt in my mind the sand would be dried thoroughly if blown up to the tower.

 ">

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, October 24, 2013 2:12 PM

Hi, Tom

Here's an interisting link to a neat Shorpy photo taken on the C&NW at Clinton, Iowa, giving a glimpse into the sandhouse.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/2926

That Jack Delano sure must have had fun being paid to ride around and photograph railroads in 1943!

Although we don't know the exact layout of the dryer operations portrayed here, you can see part of the drying hopper on the left, coal on the right and perhaps the firebox door opening? Seems to me that the chance of getting coal into the sand and vice-versa would be significant...

Hope this helps, Ed

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Posted by locoi1sa on Sunday, October 27, 2013 4:18 PM

Tom.

 Another Shorpy pick of the entire sand bunker and drying house with towers in the background.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/3313

     Pete

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 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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