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Railroads and trucks in 1932.

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  • Member since
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  • From: Central Iowa
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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, October 8, 2013 5:18 PM

Don Hofsommer's book on the history of Iowa railroads has an editorial cartoon about this subject.  It shows a man on the end of an observation platform on the end of a train.  He's shaking his fist and complaining about the highway next to the tracks.  The highway is full of autos, trucks and busses.  A sign along the railroad right of way says something to the effect that railroads have to pay to maintain the tracks and pay taxes on them.  The sign along the highway says built and maintained by the public.  The caption is "There seems to be something in what he says."  The copyright date is hard to read, even with a magnifying glass, but appears to be 1931. 

I have old Railroad Magazine issues from the 1930s and 40s where there are complaints from various parties about the inroads trucks and busses are starting to make by using public provided infrastructure.  One issue even has a fiction story, the reason I like these old magazines, where the plot revolves around a railroad trying to win back freight traffic from a new trucking company.

Jeff

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, October 8, 2013 7:44 AM

Interstate trucking was certainly fairly common by the time WW2 started. The 1940 film "The Grapes of Wrath" has a fairly famous scene at a truck stop on US Route 66 involving a waitress at the truck stop and two truckers eating lunch. There was a fairly substantial network of two-lane blacktop or concrete highways by 1940. Remember that trucks were much smaller than today, so were very limited by how much they could carry.

Stix
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Posted by SSW9389 on Tuesday, October 8, 2013 6:47 AM

One railroad that embraced trucking was the St. Louis Southwestern Railway (Cotton Belt). The Southwestern Transportation Company, started in 1928  was the trucking subsidiary of the Cotton Belt. To harness the long haul of railroading with the short haul of trucking the Cotton Belt started an LCL freight train in the Fall of 1931 called the Blue Streak Merchandise.

Tags: Cotton Belt
COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
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Posted by dknelson on Saturday, October 5, 2013 5:17 PM

Remember that the railroads long had a thriving and profitable Less Than Carload Lot (LCL) business that involved local stops at all those small town depots (and many small towns had both passenger and freight stations or depots; some combined them), and freight depots for transloading in major cities.  Often they would use specially equipped "waycars" (not in the caboose sense but a boxcar with interior compartments) so that as a local went from town to town they could briefly and quickly drop of freight at the depot of a size that by the 40" boxcar era would no longer deserve its own car.  It didn't take much of a road or highway system for trucks to make serious inroads into that traffic.  

I do not know if the truck service that killed LCL for the railroads was superior in both cost and timeliness as it became for some long haul interstate traffic.

The "Eisenhower" interstate of the 1950s certainly changed the situation for railroads, but the Lincoln Highway had its start in 1912 and roads and highways were getting better as early as WW1.  I have an old book by Ballamy Partridge called "Fill 'er Up!" published by McGraw Hill in 1952 for the 50th anniversary of the AAA.  Interestingly the author says it was the bicylists of America who were primarily responsible for the first  "Good Roads' movements, then the auto owners, and it is logical to think that the truckers were beneficiaries.  His book says little or nothing about trucks or freight, but is largely about the roads themselves and the need for restaurants and motels -- a need shared by truckers too.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, October 5, 2013 7:57 AM

Bear,

I got the Google ones,,but I never saw the flickr,,linker ones.Laugh  

Thanks for The Link,,,,,,I don't want to stir any feather's,,,,My first Love is Trucks,then The Trains..Oops

Cheers, Drinks

Frank

  • Member since
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  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, October 5, 2013 5:29 AM

Apologies to Pete for going Off Topic.

Frank, as we were , and still are part of the British Commonwealth, buying British was expected. After WWll quite a few surplus GMCs, what I guess you'd call Deuce and a halfs were recovered from up in the Pacific Islands. Now it's what evers available. I got my Heavy Transport Licence as soon as I turned 18 on one of these, though in far better order, 5 speed crash gear box with a two speed Eaton diff.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20960256@N04/7099910223/

I was hoping that I might have come up with a definitive site, but failed, Here's just a couple by googling.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53052625@N08/sets/72157628848268939/detail/

https://www.google.com/search?q=new+zealand+trucks+photos&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=KOBPUveRIcWjkgXDnYDoAg&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=144

A young Bear and TK Bedford loader truck.

Cheers, the Bear

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, October 5, 2013 4:39 AM

BEAR,

By any chance,,do you have any pic's of trucks,made in your part of the World?? I would be interested,to see,what an upside down truck looks like,,,,,but all kidding aside,I am serious..Big Smile

Cheers, Drinks

Frank

  • Member since
    August 2011
  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, October 5, 2013 4:32 AM

Gidday Pete, an interesting link.

"In certain countries where the railroads are practical or complete government ownership, measures of an exceedingly restrictive if not prohibitive character have been taken against highway carriers."  

This is of course happened in New Zealand, the Transport Licensing Act was introduced in 1931 and not finally repealed until 1982. Hind sight is a great thing, but in  my opinion the protectionism actually had an adverse effect on the NZGR in that it was not required to be competitive let alone efficient. Now a days the NZ Road Transport Association is a powerful group that lobbies too successfully in keeping railways down.

As a psychological aside, we never seem to be able to hit a happy medium. Sigh

Cheers, the Bear.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by chutton01 on Friday, October 4, 2013 9:03 PM

locoi1sa
Sorry guys. I don't know what happened to the first link. Lets try this one. for some reason it will not let it get past the first page.

http://www.multimodalways.org/archives/rrs/PRR/PRR.html


Psst, Pete - look a few posts above, I got the direct link to the document to work fine.
The key was replacing the Hex Code for ASCII space character (displayed as %20) with an acutual space when you insert the MR forum link.
This happens now and then on message boards...

  • Member since
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Posted by zstripe on Friday, October 4, 2013 6:47 PM

Pete,

Yeah!! That one works,,I'll have to check it all out later..BTW,I knew a few Truck Drivers for years,,that used to work for Pennsylvania Truck LInes,which was owned by the railroad and they were Union Teamsters..The good ole days.. Thanks for fixing it,,,I've learned,they are hit or miss,sometimes..

Cheers, Drinks

Frank

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Posted by locoi1sa on Friday, October 4, 2013 4:37 PM

Sorry guys. I don't know what happened to the first link. Lets try this one. for some reason it will not let it get past the first page.

http://www.multimodalways.org/archives/rrs/PRR/PRR.html

  The PDF is about half way down the page. It is titled Railroads and trucks. What is a fair deal? There are quite a few documents to read here.

    Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by chutton01 on Friday, October 4, 2013 11:15 AM

zstripe
Chutton01,

Yeah,,That one works,,,,What I was hoping for pic's of Trucks,Trains,in they're every day duties,like loading,unloading,,They're interaction,with trains and so forth.



OK, I see your point, and to avoid confusion perhaps the OP should have titled this thread - Railroads VS. Trucks in 1932...

  • Member since
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  • From: Chi-Town
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Posted by zstripe on Friday, October 4, 2013 10:30 AM

Chutton01,

Yeah,,That one works,,,,What I was hoping for pic's of Trucks,Trains,in they're every day duties,like loading,unloading,,They're interaction,with trains and so forth..I have a lot now,,but always like to see something that may be different..The highway routes and such, I know my share of them..I belong to a Mag called ''Wheels of Time'' Witch is about any Truck ever made,,,but it's nice to see some old Black & White pic's taken at the time it was going on..

About the clickable link thing,,,I've found that the only way you can test,to see if it works,is to post it,and that sux,,,especially,when it don't work....Thanks For the Info,Though..

Cheers, Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by chutton01 on Friday, October 4, 2013 9:46 AM

zstripe
CHUTTON01,
Darn,,,,,,,The only link that works on yours,,is the fairly nice entry,at the top,,,,,I was hoping to see some pics,,,oh well!!

That's because that's the main Wiki entry ("fairly nice entry") which I posted directly - the internal wiki links (which work in the wiki entry) just sort of come along for the ride as invalid URLs, but remain formatted as valid links.
So read the original wiki entry, and click on the links there.
BTW, what kind of "pics" did you expect to see anyway, the invalid links are to pages describing other highway bills...

Let's see if I can get the original document link to work - yay! So far so good...

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, October 4, 2013 9:24 AM

chutton01

Wiki has a fairly nice entry which discusses the US Highway system (NOT the interstate system, but the US Route system - those roads signed w/ the black on white shields e.g. "US 1".

As a note from the article:

Behind the scenes, the federal aid program had begun with the passage of the Federal Aid Road Act of 1916, providing 50% monetary support from the federal government for improvement of major roads. The Federal Aid Highway Act of 1921 limited the routes to 7% of each state's roads, while 3 in every 7 roads had to be "interstate in character". Identification of these main roads was completed in 1923

So, the early 1920s is as good as any era to mark the start of real rail/truck interstate freight competition

CHUTTON01,

Darn,,,,,,,The only link that works on yours,,is the fairly nice entry,at the top,,,,,I was hoping to see some pics,,,oh well!!

Cheers, Drinks

Frank

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Posted by chutton01 on Friday, October 4, 2013 8:57 AM

Wiki has a fairly nice entry which discusses the US Highway system (NOT the interstate system, but the US Route system - those roads signed w/ the black on white shields e.g. "US 1".

As a note from the article:

Behind the scenes, the federal aid program had begun with the passage of the Federal Aid Road Act of 1916, providing 50% monetary support from the federal government for improvement of major roads. The Federal Aid Highway Act of 1921 limited the routes to 7% of each state's roads, while 3 in every 7 roads had to be "interstate in character". Identification of these main roads was completed in 1923

So, the early 1920s is as good as any era to mark the start of real rail/truck interstate freight competition

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, October 4, 2013 5:17 AM

PETE,

I see that no one has brought it to your attention yet,,,,but the Link don't work,,has ERROR, I wanted to see it..Do you think you can fix it??

Cheers, Drinks

Frank

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 3,312 posts
Railroads and trucks in 1932.
Posted by locoi1sa on Thursday, October 3, 2013 8:16 PM

 Early on in the century the railroads were afraid of trucks and here is proof.

http://www.multimodalways.org/docs/railroads/companies/PRR/PRR%20RRs%20&%20Trucks.pdf

  I had always thought that it was the fifties with the implementation of the interstate highway system. I picture the thirties as mostly back roads and unpaved highways between cities. Trucking back then must have been rough.

      Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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