Hi everyone!
I have managed to acquire a fair number of freight cars suitable for the late 1950s but I haven't purchased any covered hoppers.
My question is what styles of hoppers would have been used in the late 50s in Canada on Canadian Pacific lines? I have looked at Bowser and their two bay open and closed side hoppers seem to fill the bill. Am I right on that?
I can't/won't spend a fortune for either resin kits or newer RTR.
Thanks
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Gidday Dave, from researching what would be feasible freight cars on my freelanced 50s railroad, the Bowser covered hoppers would certainly fit the time frame, nice kits to build as well.
Sadly, and I would like to be proven wrong, I would deduct that as Bowser has not released any in CP colours, that they were not used by them, though I see that they released Grand Trunk Western and SOO schemes, though I 'm not up with the play regarding when the SOO became a CP subsidiary.
Your Canadian chaps seem to have opted for a design that I gather was unique to Canadian railroads...
http://www.pacific-western-rail.com/announcements/view.php?ID=3265
I did cough and splutter when I saw the price which is why I used "Sadly".
Hope I'm wrong.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I would suggest joining a CN or CP Modeling Group or Historical Society in order to find out if those railroads had those types of cars.
The Slab side Covered Hoppers that Bear noted were delivered in 1956 and might have been used for some special kind of service, most probably Potash.
Due to the Crows Nest Freight Agreement the CP & CN only used Old 40' Boxcars to ship grain until the advent of the 4550CF Canadian Wheat Board cars financed by the Canadian Wheat Board.
The GTW and SOO lines were essentially US railroads and due to tariff consideration their cars would not be used in International Service, those cars were especially marked and had specific utilitzation.
The Canada Southern an NYC Subsidiary did roster some Covered Hoppers, most were old USRA Hoppers that were converted with a roof and hatches although they had 3 Enterprise Covered Hoppers that can be replicated with an F&C Resin Kit or a long time OOP Eastern Car Works kit.
Rick J
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Covered Hoppers in Canada in the 50's. Most would be limited to the standard 2 bay cement hoppers. The larger 3 bay grain hoppers were just beginning to be used in the US. I am not sure if ACF type covered hoppers you mentioned were built for use in Canada or if a 'clone' was built under license by a Canadian builder. Checking with the CN/CP Historical groups would be a good start.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
jrbernier Covered Hoppers in Canada in the 50's. Most would be limited to the standard 2 bay cement hoppers. The larger 3 bay grain hoppers were just beginning to be used in the US. I am not sure if ACF type covered hoppers you mentioned were built for use in Canada or if a 'clone' was built under license by a Canadian builder. Checking with the CN/CP Historical groups would be a good start. Jim
These types were not really operated in Canada. You're looking at "slab-side" hoppers of the type mentioned above. Versions of these were built as early as the mid 1950s.
Starting in the 1960s, curved side cars of the same size were built, which eventually grew and evolved into the large 4-bay cylindrical cars that are a signature of Canadian railroad from the 1970s to today.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
In 1948 ,the CNR got 50 covered hoppers like the one shown below., although the one in the photo is missing its hoppers:
In the same year, the CPR began receiving slab-sided covered hoppers from National Steel Car, similar to the Sylvan car shown below. The CN also ordered these cars, starting in 1951, along with the TH&B in '56,and the PGE in 1962.
True Line offers pretty-well all versions of the slab-sided cars - there were variations in the sides (some with cut-outs, others without), number of roof hatches, and, of course, paint schemes. While they were fairly pricey, I did see them occasionally at around $20.00.
The CPR had quite a few boxcars with underfloor hoppers, but no roof hatches. These were "convertible" cars, with drop-down doors to cover the hoppers when the car was used as a boxcar, but they could be considered an early covered hopper, I suppose. The original two date from 1911, with another 200 delivered in 1912-13 and were 36' Dominion/Fowler cars, while in the '20s they constructed 3500 40'-ers. These cars were intended mainly for grain service. CP built their first true covered hopper in 1919 - I can't find the article on it, but I believe it was a variation on their "Big Otis" gondolas.
Also in-service in Canada from about the mid-'30s were carbon black covered hoppers, similar to the Rail Shop Inc. car shown below. Due to the nature of the lading, these cars were used only for transporting carbon black:
Wayne
Thank you everyone for the information you have provided.
I will explore the CP historical societies. CN would be a bit of a stretch hooked up behind CP locos I think.
The carbon black cars are interesting, and I will have at least one industry that could receive them.
The cars don't have to be CP but I would like to model stuff that would reasonably have been used in Canada.
It would appear that I have some homework to do. Thanks for steering me in the right direction.
It wouldn't be unusual to see CN cars behind CP locos, or vice versa, either. The shipper uses the empty which is spotted at his loading dock, and it's taken to the consignee, wherever that may be. Even roads which competed directly didn't necessarily serve all of the same areas, and that car would be interchanged when necessary.As for cars which could reasonably be seen in Canada, a car from pretty-well any common carrier in North America with an interchange to the rail system could be seen here, or anywhere else in North America, for that matter. The ex-Mexican car shown below was photographed in Burlington, Ontario earlier this summer, but I recall seeing Mexican boxcars in Hamilton, Ontario in the '50s, too.
Wayne!
OK - every time you post I learn something!
I have some CN boxcars that I bought early in my modelling career and I was wondering what to do with them. Now I know that I can run them along with just about everything else.
Thanks for filling me in.
Spent some time tonight looking at the Canadian Pacific Railroad Historical Association web site:
http://www.cptracks.ca/cpsig/index.html
It looks like modelling any CP owned 1950's covered hoppers will be a bit of a challenge unless I want to spend a fortune, which I can't do. Doctor Wayne's Sylvan THB hopper shown above is the best option but finding any of them will be difficult. Apparently Sylvan is not making them any more, and even if they were I suspect that the price would be way out of my range. I just searched eBay's covered hopper listings (more than 1800 cars) and nothing fit the CP prototype. I will likely have to be satisfied with using private owner 2 bay hoppers like the ones that Bowser offers.
I'm going to sit on this for a while before I buy any covered hoppers. I just found some CP passenger cars on eBay, with interiors including passengers and body mounted Kadees for a really good initial price. I have several IHC CP passenger cars already but without interiors. If I can get the eBay listed ones for a good price it will be cheaper than outfitting the IHC cars. There goes my hopper budget!
Thanks again for your advice everyone! Much appreciated. Hope you don't feel that I have wasted your time.
Pikestuff offers passenger car seats at a reasonable price, and you can easily fabricate bulkheads and partitions from sheet styrene. The same material can be used for dining car tables and banquette-style seating, and also for window shades - the latter can give the impression of a well-detailed car for a very low cost.I'll post some pictures once I can dig 'em up.
I've also sent you a PM concerning the covered hoppers.
hon30critterHope you don't feel that I have wasted your time.
Gidday Dave, wot a daft idea!!!
(1) the Joys of a Hobby, we can change track, especially if something else turns up. "Carpe Diem"
(2) I've learnt about Slab-sided hoppers, amongst other things, in fact I've favourited this thread for future reference.
Cheers, the Bear
Bear!
I pride myself on being a bit 'daft'!!!
Dave,
Just so you know, the CN Enterprise Covered Hopper shown by Wayne, which I entirely forgot about was once available from Eastern Car Works. Their car was slightly different from the NYC version, mostly by the position of the roof hatches.
These cars are long OOP from Eastern Car Works, but can be found on Evil Bay, more so than the NYC version, of which I have managed to snag 6 of in the last three years at reasonable prices.
Sent from my Etch-A-Sketch Mark I
Thanks Rick
I will add Eastern Car Works into my search parameters on eBay.
Does anyone know when this version of the "Slab Side" covered hopper was introduced. It is an Overland model with 12 square roof hatches.
I am considering the purchase, but how for out is it from 1954?
Since it will be given a nonsense name, I can fudge it a year or so, but I don't want any terrible anachronisms.
Thanks.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
The closed side side was a CN only version built between 1951-53 by NSC and CCF in multiple batches.
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cn355001&o=cn
CN 113170-113269, built 1951 by CC&F, re# 355000-355027 & 390200-390271 around 1966
http://nakina.net/photos/cn1/cn113351.jpg
CN 113270-113394, built 1953 by CC&F, re# 355028-355132 & 390272-390289 around 1966
http://nakina.net/photos/cn1/cn113398.jpg
CN series 113395-113544, built 1953 by National Steel Car, re# 355133-355260 & 356000-356008 & 390290-390301around 1966.
OK. It looks like the 12 square hatch version is appropriate for 1954.
Brasstrains Dot Com has three of them for sale today. I think I will be ordering one for myself.
Thank you for the reply.