Help! NYC paint scheme for structures

[tstage]

Hi fellas!

Can someone help me out with a long standing question I have? I don't remember if I posted this here before or not.

I'm trying to find out what the exact color scheme was for New York Central buildings around the steam/diesel era transition - i.e. 30's and 40's. I'm particularly interested in the colors used to paint the interlocking towers and freight/passenger depots. I know that it was either light green with dark green trim; or light gray with dark gray trim.

Several people have directed me to the Fallen Flags web site. They have a wide variety of photographs - even some nice color photos of building and structures - but I haven't found anything that's answered my question. I've also gone to the NYC forum on Railfan.net. My inquiry was bantered back and forth but no one there could really give me a definitive answer.

I've even written a letter to the NYC System Historical Society, asking them if they could tell me what colors were used during that era. I got a brief letter back from the editor, informing me that my question "had been selected to appear in the Tack Board column of our Central Headlight magazine" and to "watch for the answer to appear there." Well, I DO feel honored to have my question selected. But since I don't belong to the NYCSHS, that didn't really help me out all that much. [:(]

Sooooo...does anyone out in MRR cyberspace know the answer to this? Or, can you direct me in the right direction or to someone who might? ANY assistance is greatly appreciated. The most convenient answer would be model paint manufacturer and color. At this point, I'll take anything I can get. [:)] Thanks ahead of time!!! [:D]

Tom

[orsonroy]

Go with a light greyish-green for the body color, and a darker, almost hunter for the drim and window/door jambs. At least, that's the color of the old interlocking plant at Lafayette, Indiana.

One thing to keep in mind though: the NYC was HUGE, was made up of lots of ex-roads, and had lots of people interpreting what the standards "said". Painting and maintenance was usually up to the whim of whoever "owned" the structures, be it the individual station agent or the divisional road foreman. Even on smaller roads like the NKP, there were lots of variations on the basic theme of "grey, white and black", which yielded lots of interesting variations. Case in point was the NYC/P&E/CCC&StL freighthouse in Bloomington, IL. It was local yellow brick. Based on the NYC color standards of the 1950s, the windows should have had black frames and dark green jambs. They were chocolate. The brick depot across the tracks was owned by the NKP, but was jointly occupied by the NKP. The NKP freighthouse was next to it, and was meduim grey with white windows. The depot's windows were the same meduim grey as the NKP freighthouse.

Confusing, isn't it?

[tstage]

Thanks for the info, Ray!

I had noticed the variations. I've seen whitish gray with the dark green trim, light green with off white trim, and so on. One of the train guys at a LHS I frequent (and a BIG NKP nut) steered me towards a lighter "creamy sage" green for the main building and a darker "kelly" green for the trim.

I could verify the light green from a few photos on Fallen Flags but, from the couple of the photos that I was able to find, the darker green was more the darker "hunter" green that you suggested. I was wondering whether the decrepancy was more due to the quality of the original photo. (Some old Ektachome slides tend to be more "bluish" in color.)

Soooooo...basically you're telling me that I have some flexibility with the hue of colors that I choose. I'll probably do a little more research. Maybe I can appeal to the NYCSHS to send my a token copy of their Central Light for choosing MY question out of the "thousands and thousands" sent in to them on a monthly basis. (Yeah, right!)

If nothing else, I may end up opting for the darker hunter green for the trim because, personally, it looks better against the light green than the kelly green does.

Ray, many thanks again!!!

Tom

[rogerhensley]

Sheesh, where did you find 'Kelly' green? I don't recall ever seeing that anywhere concerning the NYC. :-)

Back when I answered you in another forum (2 tone gray), I didn't mention the Big Four 'yellow' paint that was used on stations and many other structures. It was a yellow with a red-orange tinge. As Ray said, the colors depended where and when you were. The NYC as a whole really didn't exist until the 30s...

Lots of color options. Take your pick. <vbg>

[tstage]

Roger,

The actual manufacturer/colors that were recommended from the one LHS are:

Light green: 505288 POLLY Scale ITAL. C. GR. 53192
Dark green: Floquil M.K.T. Green (GLS)

The dark green turned out a bit glossy so I had to soften it with a duller. The M.K.T. Green is just a little too stark and draws too much attention to itself. I guess I could weather both of the greens with some alcohol in order to dull or age them nicely

Roger, thanks again (and again!) for your input.

Tom

[tstage]

UPDATE:

I was visiting one of my LHS recently - which, by the way, has an excellent selection of reference books - and I ran across Geoffrey H. Doughty's book, New York Central Facilites - In Color. I would have loved to have taken it home with me but I could neither fathom nor rationalize the $60 to purchase the thing! [:0] (OUCH! I still wince thinking about it!)

I was able to verify Ray's previous statement that the NYC's paint schemes were quite varied. Even with the variety of color combinations, I was able to locate a few photos that had the light green/dark green paint scheme. My findings revealed that the dark green ranged anywhere from a darker "kelly" (yuck!) to a "hunter" to a "bluish spruce".

My decision? I went with the Polly Scale Ital. C Green for the body and - even though I would prefer a somewhat darker green - I went with the Floquil Dark Green for my trim - mainly because I ALREADY had a jar of it here at home. I painted over the other green last night and my wife wholeheartedly agrees that it's a VAST improvement over the M.D.T. Green.

Oooookay...I know I've bored you all to tears [:(] with a lot of meaningless detail. [|)] Just wanted to thank everyone again for their invaluable input. [:)]

Tom (a.k.a. newest member into the 2-STAR club)